On this episode of Be On Air we have the honor of featuring Christine Rodriguez. After spending eight years studying under world respected astrology teachers, Christine completed the University of Vedic Astrology training and became a certified Vedic Astrologer. She has a master’s in social work. In addition, she has years of experience working with refugees and survivors of trauma, abuse, and neglect. Some of her studies included the clinical foundations in Gottman method and couples therapy through the Gottman Institute to reach a uniquely holistic and compassionate approach to her coaching methods.
We dive right into it in this episode and discuss how Christine found podcasting as her medium for amplifying her message as well as why Christine became an astrologer. We talk about the different the kinds of astrology, what it takes to provide counsel to someone in need, the four horsemen, how to have better relationships, the magic of community on Patreon and so much more. This conversation is full of tremendous value for everyone and gives some truly amazing insight into astrology and relationships.
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00:00 – Introduction
03:36 – Recommendations for a new podcaster
06:07 – How Christine came to podcasting and Vedic Astrology
10:35 – Western vs Vedic Astrology
16:19 – How does an astrology reading benefit someone?
21:52 – Providing support and counsel
29:16 – Relationships with ourselves and others
33:59 – Establishing and defining the four horsemen
37:50 – Stonewalling
41:21 – Criticism
44:44 – What is gentle startup?
47:25 – Contempt
53:21 – Defensiveness and feedback
1:06:10 – Using Patreon for podcasting
1:17:39 – Rapid fire Q&A
Christine Rodriguez : [00:00:00] It’s a mess and it’s a journey and it’s the most beautiful journey we’ll ever do. And as we move through that, I think that naturally we gain compassion and appreciation for other people and on their journey, patience on their journey and appreciation and respect. because we’re like, man, this is hard work.
Being a person is hard. Developing self-awareness is hard. Healing is hard. And just being a person in general is
K.Lee Marks: [00:00:56] hey welcome my friends. Welcome to another episode of Be On air. So I was actually feeling extra nervous today because the person that I am interviewing is a seer. She is someone who has the ability, not only to sit with you and see what you’re going through, which is one of the best gifts that another human can give to another.
But she has the ability to read the stars. And, you know, for those of you who do not believe in astrology, I challenge you to stick around, check out this wonderful person, check out what she has to say about it and, and, you know, give it some thought. So after eight years of studying under world respected astrology teachers, Christine Rodriguez completed the university of Vedic astrology training and became a certified Vedic Astrologer.
She has a master’s in social work. And she has years of experience working with refugees and survivors of trauma, abuse and neglect. She’s also studied the clinical foundations in Gottman method, couples therapy through the Gottman Institute, which is there some of my most respected leaders in relationship knowledge.
And she adds this to her impressive list of offerings for her clients. She truly works with you as a whole human taking into consideration your spiritual, emotional. Mental and physical being to provide deep insight and actionable coaching. She’s a master at holding space and listening to both the energetic and the explicit.
I count myself fortunate to collaborate with her, and I’m so pleased to share her work with you. Also stick around. We’re going to be speaking with Christine Rodriguez.
Christine Rodriguez. Welcome. Welcome. It’s so good to have you.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:02:36] Thank you. Thank you for such a generous and kind introduction.
I have so much respect and appreciation for you. So hearing that coming from you, it means a lot to me and I really just hope that I can live up to that amazing, generous introduction. Thank you so much, K.Lee.,
K.Lee Marks: [00:02:54] I absolutely it’s, it’s very much the truth and I have no doubt that you, uh, have already lived up to it.
So, you know, to, to start off. You’re an astrologer and you have the amazing podcast astrology now, which has amassed a dedicated following. You’ve been able to monetize it relatively quickly and you know, you, you have a flourishing coaching business around it. And so one thing that I would love to talk about right off the bat, and I want to get into your story and your journey with podcasting, but one thing I want to start with so that we lead with value for the listeners, because, you know, I respect your time listeners, you’re tuning in, maybe you’re driving, maybe you’re washing the dishes who knows what you’re doing.
I want to, I want to make sure we front-load this episode with a little bit of value, and then we’re going to go into the heart of the matter. And there’s going to be so much deep value there as well. But Christine, what would you, what would you recommend. To someone considering starting a podcast or someone who’s just started a podcast, what would you recommend to them so that they can, uh, have confidence to put their workout?
Because one thing that blocks a lot of podcasts is that self-confidence, it’s imposter syndrome. It’s fear of not being good enough. And yeah. Do you have any insight on that? We’re going to just start here.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:04:10] Yeah. And that’s such like such a beautiful question. Um, something that I try to remind everybody is that no one will ever be able to do exactly what you’re doing.
No, one’s going to be able to offer the world what you can like to the listener listening right here, right now with your unique experience and your unique perspective. There is no one else on the planet who can do things exactly the way that you do, and that’s a beautiful offering and a beautiful gift to share your perspective and.
Expand the consciousness and awareness of others by sharing what it is that you see and what it is that you value and how you interpret the world or whatever information it is you’re wanting to share. And the other thing that I recommend is just to do it. I think I I’ve had a lot of friends who have had podcast ideas and they get stuck on it and maybe they procrastinate with it or they feel like, like you mentioned, like they have imposter syndrome.
They think that they don’t actually have something to share. And. Podcasting is a service and it’s also a passion project. You know, at least the way I perceive it. Is it something that is done from the heart? It’s something that can be done just for fun. So I think trying to take the edge off of being like, look, this is the service to the world.
This is something that you are providing for free to people. And it’s something that you love and it’s something from the heart. And when you’re doing the something from the heart and something from a place of passion, you can’t really go wrong. If you’re coming from a place of service, you can’t really go wrong.
So I hope that that’s helpful.
That is so helpful. And it, you
K.Lee Marks: [00:05:47] know, it reminds me of this quote one person’s ordinary as another’s extraordinary and something that you do every day that I do every day that we think is boring. Someone else could find a tremendous amount of value from it. And I, and I love your point about just starting.
I th I agree. Perfectionism kills podcasts. Perfectionism is the enemy of progress. And we have to just start, we have to just put, put it out. So with that in mind, would you tell us a little bit about how you came to podcasting, how you decided to start your own platform?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:06:17] Yeah. I started the podcast because I love astrology.
And I like talking about a struggle. It’s like not a profound story. I I’ve just always loved history. And again, like you had mentioned at the beginning, I had been studying for quite some time and I, I love talking about it and I love sharing it. And so I started the podcast simply because I wanted to share what I know.
And I thought maybe someone somewhere could benefit. One of the main reasons was that I have been so fortunate in regards to teachers and coming into contact with teachers and then therefore having information. And so I was like, wow, there are people who may not have access to these teachers, you know, not everyone is going to have an astrology mentor, just walk into their life.
And so why don’t I just share what I did. Because I’ve been so generously given to you. So maybe, um, for what it’s worth, you know, I’m, I’m still a student too. I’m still constantly learning as well. Um, but perhaps as I gain information and I share it, someone somewhere can benefit it. I did not start the podcast with the intention of having a business.
I didn’t start the podcast with the intention of being a full-time astrologer that all just kind of rolled with it. Um, it really did just start off as, as a passion project and doing something that I enjoy.
K.Lee Marks: [00:07:41] So let’s, let’s go farther back then. And how did you first find out about astrology and how did, how did that happen?
How did, how does one become a certified Vedic astrology? Like what is that even like?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:07:51] Yeah. And so everyone’s story is going to be different and I’ll share mine. And I actually love, I love talking about those because I feel that the universe was just very supportive of me studying astrology. So I was born into a family where my mom, she wasn’t an astrologer, but she she’s very interested in the esoteric and the metaphysical world.
And so I was introduced to Western astrology at a very young age, and I still remember being gifted, like my first astrology book on my Western sun sign. And I was like, this is really, really interesting. I want to learn more. And so even from a young age, I was like really trying to put the puzzle pieces together and understand.
And then by the time I was in high school, I was like guessing people, sun signs. I know that’s really common. I’m sure so many people listening to this can relate like guessing people, sun signs really into it. And then I started going to therapy for the first time. And my therapist, when I was like 15 or 16, she realized that I loved astrology and she used astrology as a way to connect with me.
And so she started bringing these Western astrology books to our session and she had books that would break it down, like week for week. It wasn’t just on like the month it was showing compatibility or showing personality qualities for a week within the year. And I was like, okay, okay, okay. We’re getting onto something.
It’s getting more specific. I still don’t feel like I have all the pieces yet, but you know, and like my mind started turning super, super into astrology. I moved to Austin and I started going to a yoga studio that was owned by my first astrology mentor. I saw that he was doing classes on Vedic astrology, took his course.
And the first class, I was just like, this is it. This is what I’ve been looking for. Everything makes sense. Um, I started mentoring under him. Started connecting with other astrologers. And then eventually I wanted to get certified because that’s just the type of person that I am. I don’t think everyone needs to be certified.
There are so many phenomenal astrologers who are not certified, same thing with, you know, teachers. Um, but for me it was an alignment to get certified, super amazing experience. So grateful that I did it. And, uh, that’s kind of where I am. I’m still working with mentors though. I still think it’s, I think it’s so important to always have teachers and to always be learning. We’re never done.
K.Lee Marks: [00:10:14] We’re never done, lifelong learner, for sure. That’s a huge, uh, it’s a, it’s a valuable skill. It’s a value. I think actually to have that, that always open mind and always learning and it gets you ahead, gets you ahead in life because we’re able to learn from anyone rather than only be able to learn from people that we deem, uh, You know, smarter, more intelligent, farther along than our than ourselves.
Uh, so could you briefly describe the difference between Western and Vedic astrology for our listeners? Because I know there’s similarities, but there’s some pretty huge differences and you got certified in Vedic astrology for, for those who have not heard of vedic astrology , maybe you could break down the differences a little.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:10:52] Sure, thanks. So there are a few major differences between Western and Vedic astrology. And one of them is that Western astrology is a solar based system. And so that means that the most important planet or one of the most important planets, what the system is based off of is the placement of the sun.
And so this is important to take note of Vedic. Astrology is a lunar based system. That means that the most important planet is going to be the moon that we’re paying attention to the most. One of the most influential planets and the sun transits one sign every month. So when the sun moves into a sign, it stays in that side for a month.
The moon stays in a sign for two and a half days. So even with that, I, I prefer it. Um, one because I’m kind of partial to the moon and two, because it’s giving a little bit more of a specific result. Someone who’s born within a two and a half a day, time is much more specific than someone who’s born in a month because everyone born within, um, you know, 30 days is said to have the same qualities, whereas with the moon, it’s at least getting a little bit more specific to the two and a half days, if that makes sense.
K.Lee Marks: [00:12:06] It does.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:12:07] Awesome. Thanks. I appreciate that. And the, the other major difference is that Western astrology is based on the seasons and the Vernal Equinox. So yeah. The way that it’s calculated is going to be different than the way that Vedic sidereal astrology is calculated. Vedic astrology is based on the astronomical placement of the planets.
So for example, today is April 15th, 2021 in Western astrology. The Saturn is said to be in the sign of Aquarius. Whereas if you download a star app and you find the constellation of Capricorn in the sky, you’ll see that Saturn is sitting astronomically in the sign of Capricorn. And so that’s not to say that either of these systems are better or worse.
Um, Western astrology has a lot of amazing and profound effects. I have teachers who like to use Western astrology. I have many friends who use Western astrology. It is going to be based though on the seasons, not based on the astronomical placement of the planets. And for me, when I, when I learned that and I saw that I really liked to use the system.
Is following where the planets are literally in the sky. Right. And is it, is it accurate to say that Vedic astrology is maybe a older science? I would definitely say that. Yeah. Vedic astrology is incredibly traditional and it’s also a part of a much larger system, you know, from ancient India. It’s one of the main Vedantic practices that is also connected to things like I R Veda and yoga.
And so it’s a part of a system of overall wellness and to increase our level of self-realization. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it gives a finer grain, more detailed view of the self and this life and what we’re going through. And I’m just anticipating that maybe there are some listeners who don’t, they don’t feel that there is scientific proof or they, they don’t, they don’t, they haven’t seen the effect of astrology on their life.
Maybe it’s because they’re going off of Western. And so they’re only working with them. Long cycle, but what would you say to someone like that? Well, this is actually really funny. Yeah. It comes up for me quite a bit. Um, a lot of people don’t know about Vedic astrology. And so when I explain it to them, they’re like, I didn’t even know this existed because one of the common ways to debunk Western astrology is the procession of the Equinox.
So when I say the procession of the Equinox, what that means is that the way the sky relates to earth is shifting one degree every 72 years. So then people from NASA, people who are really into science are like, Hey, astrology, is it real? Because that’s not where the planets are anymore. There’s the procession of the Equinox.
No one is telling them, Hey, there’s another system of astrology that accounts for that procession and it’s Vedics ideas, astrology. And so I have had people, um, be kind of like, oh, I didn’t, I didn’t know that. I didn’t realize that. So that is one thing to note is that it’s going to be much more in alignment with the scientific placement, that kind of appeals to people.
And then the other thing is. Get a reading, you know, go to someone and have them predict things about your year or years to come look back, have somebody point out a major life events to you because using Vedic sidereal astrology, you will be able to see when a big life shifts occurred or changes occurred. And it’s pretty mind blowing.
And there is no other way to explain that if you sit down with someone who really knows what they’re doing, and they’ve spent a lot of time with the science and they say, Hey, I know that you, um, maybe you had, maybe you lost your father this year. Maybe you got married this year. Maybe you decided to go to grad school this year.
How else would somebody know that? You know? So the astrology is incredibly powerful and. I myself doubted astrology until I found Vedic astrology. I, I wanted to learn more because I was like, maybe I can prove this wrong. Like if I keep finding enough information, maybe I can prove that this isn’t right.
And the more that I tried to do that, the more I found it was correct.
K.Lee Marks: [00:16:19] So how, how does it benefit our life? Looking at these things, you know, predicting or getting more insight? Like what does that do for the average person who gets a reading?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:16:30] Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, I think that it can do a lot of things and the first and the most superficial is just the entertainment and having validation in your personality and how you are and how you move throughout the world and in a deeper way.
Vedic astrology and these predictions, they can help you move with the natural flows of the universe. So for example, maybe someone decides to start a business at a period of time that isn’t good for them starting a business. It’s going to be like an uphill battle. And it’s going to be very strenuous when really at that point in time, maybe they should be focusing on their relationships.
Maybe they should be focusing on spirituality where in two years, it’s a great time to start a business. You know, it’s a great time. So it helps you kind of align with the natural flows and collaborate with the universal forces in a really positive, beneficial, and productive way. And it can help you really avoid a lot of challenges, you know, because we can see when difficulties are coming.
And when we see the difficulties are coming, we can start acting now to try to really mitigate any negative effect that we may see. And one of my favorite teachers is David. And this is a very controversial, uh, belief, but David Frawley always says that we can change our karma. Karma is, um, it’s essentially just saying there’s an action and a result from that action.
So we have the ability to act in such a way that we can change and influence our karma overall and reduce some of that negative effect of it’s coming. Um, whereas if we’re totally unaware of it and we’re just moving through our life kind of blindly, we’re just gonna keep falling back into these maybe negative patterns or negative loops.
Maybe there’s something with our health Vedic astrology can be really helpful in noticing things about our health as well for medical astrology. Um, There are, there’s a lot of really amazing ways, things
K.Lee Marks: [00:18:32] Just to reflect some of that back. It sounds like we get, we get validation about maybe challenges that we’ve overcome as well as our strengths and our attributes or qualities.
We see that and it, it sort of gives language to that. So we can under understand ourselves sort of like the Enneagram sort of like all these personality tests. It gives us an overlay so that we can understand ourselves. And then also gives us this sort of preview or strategy of like, okay, here’s, here’s the.
Here’s what’s coming up. Here’s the traffic report of what’s going to happen in my life. And if I can get some insight, I can make better behaviors. I can time my, my projects, my campaigns, my work, my relationships kind of in conjunction with that so that there is more effortlessness. There’s more flow things work out better.
Is that right?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:19:21] That’s right. And can I, can I add to that as well, please, please do. So, you know, I was trying to keep it a little bit more superficial for anyone listening, who may. Um, be new to all of this are skeptical, but for the people who are listening, who are totally into the idea of like karma past and future lives and all of that, something that has been so profoundly helpful in my own life.
And, and I’ve seen this be so transformative for other people as well, is being able to see the karmic influences what karma we’re meant to experience in this life, what area of our life we are supposed to be focusing on what area of life we’ve completed and past lifetime. So it’s going to come easily to us and the areas of life that are going to be challenging.
You know, there are people who I have readings for and they come to me and they’re like, I can’t figure out my relationships. I don’t understand. And I’m like, well, you, you have a chart where relationships are going to be difficult because you’re going to be learning these lessons about relationships, depending on the person.
It may be different, but let’s just use the example of discipline and commit. Like you’re supposed to learn the reality of being in a relationship relationships. Aren’t supposed to be fun and romantic and light for you. It’s going to teach you what it means to be loyal and dedicated. You know, and then when people can start shifting their perspective in that way, they start bouncing from every relationship because they think it’s not meeting their ideal.
They start applying their discipline and dedication to it. So if you can see the blueprint of like the cosmos asking you, okay, you’re supposed to be learning X, Y, and Z. You have it in your head. You, it helps you progress and Excel in life. And I believe spiritually exponentially.
K.Lee Marks: [00:21:06] Well said well said. And, uh, if you’re listening to this and you, and you are vibing with, uh, with this karma talk, DM me on the podcast, farm on Instagram and with the word karma, I’ll send you something.
Cool. Um, so this is making me kind of think a little bit about your experience working with refugees survivors of, of extreme trauma. You know, we’re talking about karma, we’re talking about how there can be these really heavy events in our life. That can be these really traumatic experiences. And they’re sort of predestined sometimes in our chart and it can be seen, um, but grounding down into sort of the social aspect, the psychological aspect.
You, you had been working with survivors of torture, uh, at a local non-profit right. And so maybe you could talk a little bit about just that, that human aspect now. So we’ve, we’ve looked up at the stars. We looked at these maps, but then when you’re on the ground and you’re, and you’re hearing about these, these really intense experiences, um, you’re providing support, you’re providing counseling to them.
And that is very much the same skill in a sense as being an astrologer you’re providing support and counsel. So I’m curious how those two have related for you and just maybe a little bit about your story with, with working with that organization.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:22:26] Yeah. So that was having that job and working with, with refugees and people who have survived the most extreme circumstances.
It was incredibly. Humbling. I mean, that’s really, the first thing that I can think of is just the amount of humility that these individuals brought to me. And I think that another main thing that I learned from that experience is that spirituality and self-awareness and self-realization can show up in so many different ways.
And I know this isn’t necessarily in alignment with your question. I’ll get to that. I promise. I think that we, we always associate, well, we don’t always associate, I think that it’s common to associate spirituality with looking at very specific way, especially with social media and Instagram, you know, spirituality is, is having a bunch of crystals and manifestation.
You know, all these like really beautiful parts of spirituality, which is valuable. Um, but we, I think it starts creating a paradigm. That spirituality looks a specific way. And when I was working with these people, they didn’t, they didn’t have principles. They weren’t burning incense. They weren’t doing any of these more new age spirituality, um, spiritual things and their level of self awareness.
Their self-introspection their courage, their humility, their compassion. You know, the, I was watching a video this morning of some of the main qualities that are embodied by spiritual practitioner practitioners. And it was like compassion and humility, empathy, all these like beautiful personality qualities that really all it really boils down to is being able to see outside of yourself, being able to see, recognize and feel the pain of others and well, wish you know, what better for other people want to serve other people and uplift them.
And this was all I saw all the client clients that I saw embodied these qualities and to me, the spiritual path and the spiritual practice, what it’s all about is associating less with our ego and being able to see our connection with the universal and. These were people who would do anything for their family and their community and the people around them.
And they, um, it was just a very, very beautiful experience. And I feel so much gratitude and respect for every single client that I worked with. Um, I know that didn’t really answer your question.
K.Lee Marks: [00:25:00] I mean, it’s, it’s so fascinating. It makes me think like how do people overcome that? How do people overcome such in the just extreme horrific circumstances and, and what, what qualities in them do you see, uh, kind of accommodating them in that journey?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:25:18] Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, well, it’s interesting because faith was a huge thing, but it wasn’t necessarily like faith in the universal divine. It was like faith in, in their religion, you know, whatever religion it was for them, because I worked with people from all over the world. So we would have people who had different belief systems.
So having faith in their God. And, and prayer and whatever daily ritual that was for them. And also having their community, having people to rely on it gives a profound sense of purpose. And the other amazing thing that I saw was they would get to the United States after having again, really, really horrible experiences.
And they would want to serve the community. They would want to do something for the people around them. And so they could get involved with a church they could get involved with, like, I know one guy was like doing like recycling stuff. Um, once they learn English, teaching other people, English as well.
And so having this connection to service and assistance also really helped keep people inspired and gave them again, a big sense of purpose, but again, like the resiliency and the forward focus. I think, you know, what can they do next to build and grow? It was so rare that I met someone who fell into a space where they didn’t feel like doing anything.
I mean, these people wanted to continuously do more and achieve more and just. Help their life flourish. Like they were so invested towards a better life and a better way of being. And again, it’s just like, it’s so funny because for me, it’s like I could have a bad day and fall into a depression, not feel like doing anything.
And then I was working with people who would experience way worse than anything I’d ever experienced in the, like, all right, I’m going to wake up at six, I’m going to go to work and then I’m going to go to ESL. I’m going to, so the, the drive and the passion was phenomenal.
K.Lee Marks: [00:27:26] Wow. Yeah, that’s, that’s really inspiring and kind of incredible.
And it makes me think of man’s search for meaning that book by Victor Frankl a little bit. Right. And how important meaning is in overcoming these horrible circumstances. And I’m curious, were you able to talk to, like, did you get to look at anyone’s chart and kind of work with them through that lens? Or were you not able to.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:27:45] So just because of like confidentiality, I really want to respect people’s privacy. And when you talk to people from other countries, a lot of the time, like they would think that I was doing like some religious.
K.Lee Marks: [00:27:58] Witchcraft
Christine Rodriguez : [00:28:00] So I tried to be respectful of that,
K.Lee Marks: [00:28:03] which is funny because in the Bible, I think the first there’s like in, it talks about looking to the stars or reading the stars or something like right, right away.
So astrology is, is pretty fundamental to most wisdom traditions.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:28:17] Yeah. Well, and the three wise men following the stars, it’s, it’s all throughout the Bible for sure. Um, the one thing though that I do want to mention is that as I was working as a social worker, I was also working as an astrologer and people, I don’t know how people figured out what I was doing.
Maybe I mentioned it on my podcast at some point, but they’d be like, man, like, I don’t want to complain. It’s 10 0 8, by the way. Not because I’m worried about time. It’s just an auspicious number, but. They would be like, man, like I, I hear about what you do and I don’t want to complain. And something that I learned through this process is that suffering is suffering.
And despite what you’ve experienced, it could be something like horrible and traumatic. It could be something that happened in your day and it upset you. It could be something that happened with your parents. It doesn’t matter what you experienced. If something brought you dis-ease and create sadness or depression, it’s completely 100% valid and deserves empathy and love and compassion.
K.Lee Marks: [00:29:16] Yeah. This is really important. And you know, I think that this is a good bridging point into your work with the Gottman Institute and with, um, relationships, both romantic and, and interpersonal friends. Anything, anytime two humans are more are together. Uh, we have to develop certain skills. That maybe we didn’t learn from our parents.
We have to develop certain skills to actually have the other person feel understood, feel heard, feel safe. And you know, one, one of those is to not compare and not judge someone else’s suffering based off of our own or our own experience and not compare. And I’m curious if you could talk a little bit about that because you know, your life coach, you you’ve done the Gottman stuff.
You’ve done social work. You’re an astrologer, you’re a yoga teacher. You’re studying. Ayurveda . Like you have all these tools that you can, that you can use. And I’m curious, what, what is your perspective on, on the relationship side of things? Because it is sort of the kernel of society.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:30:16] Yeah, relationships are one of my favorite things to talk about.
And it’s, so it’s such an incredibly important topic because as you just mentioned, relationships are happening everywhere all the time and something that’s so important to keep in mind is that the most important relationship is the relationship that we’re going to have with ourselves. And so when we’re talking about relationship and having success in connection or relationship outside of ourselves, it’s going to be paramount that we have a really, really firm connection, understanding and intimacy with ourselves.
And with that journey, I think comes the empathy and understanding for other people. If we’re doing things like coaching or looking, even at our Vedic astrology chart, um, counseling, we’re learning about ourselves, okay. I have these triggers, I have these triggers and I know how I developed them. I know they’re irrational.
I’m going to do what I can to create a new neural pathway and not let it influence my re my relationships with my self . Or others in the future. But again, it’s like that, that journey in and of itself that introspection required and the dedication and commitment required to look at yourself deeply because it can be a really scary thing to look inside of yourself and see some of these less savory qualities and see the source of them, you know, and then we have to unpack where they came from and the people who helped create them in our lives and then finding compassion and forgiveness for them.
It’s a mess and it’s a journey and it’s the most beautiful journey we’ll ever do. And as we move through that, I think that naturally we gain compassion and appreciation for other people and on their journey, patience on their journey and appreciation and respect. because we’re like, man, this is hard work.
Being a person is hard. Developing self-awareness is hard. Healing is hard. And just being a person in general is when I bring somebody else into my orbit. I’m going to continue working as hard as I possibly can to make myself sound so that I’m not bringing all of my crap into our connection. And I really hope that they’re doing the same, you know?
And so it’s really our responsibility to take care of ourselves and then kind of, uh, collaborate to create the most harmonious, shared experience possible. Is that helpful?
K.Lee Marks: [00:32:39] It is helpful. And you know, maybe we could talk about the, the four horsemen of the apocalypse a little bit and like, what are some of the things that erode connection. So, you know, and to reflect back what I heard from you. It’s, it’s the first interrelationship, knowing my stuff, knowing where I get activated or like my nervous system gets activated. And I get triggered knowing what I need, knowing what my boundaries are, knowing that about myself, loving myself, having my back, that is going to quit me when I go into relationship to handle things better.
And I think oftentimes we get into relationship expecting that the other person is going to love us, respect our boundaries, know our needs, all that stuff. And, and really no one has a user manual to us. We have the user manual or we have to write it and give it to someone. And so the Gottman’s talk about the four horsemen of the apocalypse.
Maybe we could jam on that for a bit. Cause I think. With COVID with lockdown. Couples are tighter than ever in the positive light, but in the negative light, there is a rise of intimate partner violence. There’s a rise of breakups. There’s a rise of divorce, which is also okay. And it’s part of that natural process.
But if we can identify the four horsemen, we can kind of get a quick assessment of how our relationships are doing. And this isn’t just for romantic partnerships. This is any, any intimate relationship that you want to deepen.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:33:59] Yeah. And so like, let’s establish the four horsemen first and I actually may need your help because I was thinking, I was like, oh my God.
One of them is living my mind. It’s stonewalling, defensiveness contempt. And what’s the last one criticism.
K.Lee Marks: [00:34:17] Should have figured this out four horsemen of the apocalypse you, you were right. So it is, um, oh, I just got a whole bunch of, uh, biblical stuff when I searched it because obviously yeah.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:34:30] I mean, I I’m fairly confident stonewalling defensiveness contempt.
K.Lee Marks: [00:34:34] Yeah. That’s that’s right. Yeah. That’s right. Okay.
Yep. Criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:34:42] Okay. Sweet. It’s got it. Confirmed. Woo. Yeah. And so what you were saying though, was super important about how we’re kind of in this period of our life, where our intimate partnerships are even more intimate than they have been for the good and for the bad.
And you know, and I was listening to your podcast, that amazing podcast with Marlene, um, Dr. Marlene . Okay, Dr. Marlene, and she was discussing how this has been a really, really bad experience for some people who have been locked at home. And so I do just want to acknowledge that right now for the people who are listening.
Um, we understand just how difficult it can be. I just want to give name to that. And, and for some other people listening to this may have been a phenomenal experience where it’s been so much fun to be with their person and learning maybe new skills together or spending all this time together. And rather we’re in, um, a more negative space with someone.
Again, of course, excluding some really, really extreme circumstances. Or if we’re in a positive experience with someone we can always do better and we can always create, um, a more beneficial way of communication and acknowledgement. And it’s just an ever expanding growth cycle. Like we said, at the beginning, we’re constantly learning.
We’re constantly integrating new ways. Enhancing our relationship with ourself and the people around us. And so stonewalling is when we completely shut down, you know, and I think that this is something where we can see this in intimate partnerships and we can also see it with our friendships or even people at work.
It’s like we get flooded and then we don’t know how to engage. And stonewalling is one of those situations where it takes a lot for both parties. You know, it’s going to take. A lot of understanding with each other, because we may have one person who stonewalls and shuts down and gets flooded and need space while the other person is like wanting to repair right away, wanting to communicate.
Maybe they get reactive because they feel like they’re getting shut out. And so I think that just highlighting that it can bring name, you know, in relationship, if anyone has experienced this, where one partner is going to need a little bit more space, one partner is going to feel like they need a lot of attention right away, or it need to repair right away.
And first of all, for the person who is doing the stonewalling, I think it’s important to learn how to communicate what you need in that moment in a compassionate way. Like, Hey, I’m flooding. Can I have some space I’m not going anywhere, but I’m going to need to take a day by myself because when you vocalize it that way, you’re giving your partner who he may have a more anxiously attached style of being you’re saying you’re giving them the security.
You’re giving them a time to expect. You’re not telling them that you’re, you’re going to leave them and you’re telling them what you need. And being able to ask for what you need is going to be super important. If you’re someone who is prone to stonewalling
K.Lee Marks: [00:37:51] huge point, and let’s define stonewalling real quick, like my understanding is, uh, it, it is a retreat.
So in my nervous system, I feel attacked. I feel scared. I feel angry. I feel flooded, flooded being my I’m triggered. My amygdala is activated. I am not fully in my prefrontal cortex. I’m not like making the most logical decisions if I can notice that I can communicate it. But what happens is I might just stop, you know, stone-cold face.
I might not make any outward sign. I might try and go. I might ignore, you know, the cold shoulder. Uh, would you add anything to stonewalling?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:38:25] Yeah, it, it does look different for different people as well. And so something through the Gottman Institute that they were discussing is that for men typically, and again, this is a very general.
I understand men and women and identification, all of that. This was just what I learned through the Gottman Institute in a general way, men will generally shut down, avoid eye contact and kind of like turn away. And they’re like, look, I’m like literally leaving the situation and for women because of the way that they’ve been socialized.
Yeah. They don’t feel that they have the permission to turn away. So they’ll maintain eye contact and then just actually be a cold stone. They’re gone. Right. We’ll sit there and look at you. So whenever you see that deadpan expression come, and then someone just kind of staring at you blankly, there is a part of them emotionally and mentally that’s checked out.
They need a, time-out trying to engage with them past that. It’s just going to continue to flood them more than likely you can ask them, but it’ll probably continue to flood them and make things worse. So a lot of the time just giving room to breathe and giving some space is going to be really helpful.
Um, But, you know, it’s always going to vary person to person and what their needs are in that moment. But I do think that a lot of the time stonewalling is happening because there is a lack of understanding and, and the communication is just, um, not ideal.
K.Lee Marks: [00:39:50] Yeah. So you, you expressed that we need to know, we need to have the mindfulness to know that we’re feeling shut down.
Then we need to have the ability to communicate what our, what our needs are. And we have to do that in a way that works for the other person. So you mentioned, Hey, I’m feeling flooded. I need to take some space and maybe I need to take a day. Um, I’m not leaving the relationship. I just need to calm myself.
You know, like you, you give some love, some reassurance, some something from yourself to their self while you also take care of yourself. Cause it’s okay to be flooded. It’s okay. To not want to talk to another person. It’s okay to go take space, but in a, in a couple or in a friendship, There is a third entity that forms, which is the, the relationship and that has to be cared for, which means just because I’m fried doesn’t mean I can just like abandon that connection.
I need to communicate that respectfully in a way that works for the other person’s nervous system.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:40:45] Yeah. And, and they need to feel safe in doing that. So the other person. Is gonna have a practice because some people who are highly anxious and have a lot of a more like hot reactivity, it’s going to be really, really difficult.
Even if their partner does all of those things, they can then be like, no, no, no, no, no, I need this, this, this, this, this. And so it’s a practice for them as well to be like, listen, I hear what you’re saying. I’m going to trust that this is true. And I’m going to allow you to have space, you know? So it really is.
It’s always a two party. It’s always two people’s responsibility to make things work.
K.Lee Marks: [00:41:21] So that’s stonewalling and I a hundred percent agree. It’s like a hundred, 100%. Each person a hundred percent puts it in. It’s taking full responsibility. So stonewalling, let’s talk about criticism.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:41:35] Criticism. Criticism is crazy because we can criticize people without realizing we’re criticizing.
Like it can become just sometimes people, especially all you Virgos out there. Right? Sometimes they think that they’re just helping. Like, they’re like, okay, I see a way that this can be improved. I know this person can do better. So I’m going to tell them how they can improve and do better. And they don’t know that they’re criticizing, but it can come off as criticism.
So that is one thing to be mindful of. And then the other thing is, I mean, there can be the outward criticism too, where something may not be done the way that we want it to be done. And we have these expectations, that things should be a certain way because that’s the way that we see it. And that’s the way we believe it should be done.
And when we’re staying in that space, this is when like consciousness comes in, right. When we’re staying in that space, we’re staying locked in our own. Perspective and our own experience. We’re not leaving room for there to be another way of being. And so I think that when we can expand our consciousness and be like, oh, for this person, maybe they prefer it to be this way.
Maybe this is the better way of doing things. Why does my way have to be the right way? You know? So I think that mindfulness and, and self-realization can really come in handy when it comes to things like criticism and relationship in general. But, um, when overcoming criticism, I think that what is really important is.
Giving people, grace. And when they do something well, acknowledging what it is that they did well and praising them for that. And then just letting it be, you know, or for yourself, if you’re used to getting criticized and then your partner comes and they’re like, wow, thank you so much for doing things this way.
Like, I really appreciate it. I see that you did X, Y, and Z. You have to give them space to praise you because sometimes if people have experienced hardship in their life, for whatever reason, their immediate response may be, well, I’ve always done it this way. I’ve always done it this way. You just never acknowledged me.
And then you fall right back into that loop. So you have to be ready to be like, okay, I hear this person is praising me for this thing. I’m going to collaborate with them and accept that. Do you see what I’m saying?
K.Lee Marks: [00:43:44] Yeah. Yeah. It it’s, it’s super important to, to reinforce. The positive behavior because, uh, there’s like a five to one ratio.
The negative feedback registers so high in our brain that it takes almost like five positive things to overwrite or to balance actually not over, you’re not even right. It probably takes like 10, it takes like five things to balance out the weight of a negative comment. So in relationship, uh, you leave your plate out, uh, you leave your clothes everywhere.
Ah, all those things. It’s like if I go with that, it’s not going to go through their nervous system, their Migdal that gets fired where I mean, not everyone, but for the most part. And if I can add some, some, Hey, I didn’t see how much you’re cleaning the house. I see how much you’re working for the kids. I see how much, you know, and, and is there any way that you’d be willing to, you know, soak your dish and by the way you look beautiful today, you know, like five to one.
So having, when, when criticize, when criticizing. It can also be looked at, I think one of the sh the cheat sheet says like gentle startup. So yeah, go ahead, please share, share what that means.
Just the idea that, um, we want to set a container for our criticism, which also could be called feedback and feedback. I love this book. Thanks for the feedback. Feedback is really, really powerful. So how, you know, what is gentle startup?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:45:17] Yeah. So the way that I was taught and I mean, I don’t, I’m not sure if, if you learned it in a different way, the way that I was taught was like soft startup.
What I’ve read and have been told, because I actually was lucky enough to work with a Gottman therapist for a while too, which was an amazing experience. So amazing. And so the soft startup is so important because it’s, as you mentioned, understanding the brain is really, really helpful. And once that amygdala is off, it’s like, you know, you’re going to fall into a certain state of arousal.
And so if we can just avoid that happening, it’s going to avoid a lot of controversy and soft startup is a non-threatening way to express maybe a little bit of dissatisfaction. Right. And so like with the plate thing, it’s like, baby, I see you left your play about, I’m going to wash it for you, but maybe next time, you know, like just for the first few times, trying to be kind of playful, you know, and then as they don’t get it, maybe like, Hey babe, I’ve been watching your play.
I’m going to leave it here to see how long it’s like stays out. So I think that there’s like an element of being soft and being playful that can kind of try to get your partner to get the point. Of course, after a while, if you’re using the soft startup, if you’re using play, they’re still leaving it out.
You might just have to be like look,
K.Lee Marks: [00:46:34] I’m going to lock you out of the house if you don’t wash your dishes. No what you just gave there. I just want to highlight, because I think it is, that is a super actionable tip for everyone is adding baby to the beginning or end of your sentence or requests. Like that sounds simple. It’s magical or love or my darling, whatever.
Just it, it, uh, it hones, it dulls the blade, the sharpness of whatever you’re trying to say. And it, it reminds you and them of love.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:47:02] Yeah. I had a teacher, um, Shelley Washington, she’s the wife of David Swenson. And whenever she would come over to adjust you in a posture, if she had a criticism about your posture, she’d say, love of my life.
What is this? I loved it. I was like, even if I was doing something, she didn’t like, I was like, I’m the love of her life.
K.Lee Marks: [00:47:23] That is sweet. That is so sweet. So, okay. Moving on to, um, we got stonewalling, we talked about criticism. What what’s next? What do we got?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:47:34] Well, contempt is the ugliest one. Let’s talk about contempt because I think contempt is probably one of the most eroding damaging things that can happen.
Yeah. And, and in the Gottman, um, method contempt is one of his, one of the hardest things to come back.
K.Lee Marks: [00:47:51] Yeah.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:47:51] Um, and so it’s, I don’t think it’s not impossible to come back from. It’s just really difficult once it’s there, because it has eroded the respect and the appreciation, because with contempt it’s, it is essentially coming from a deep rooted space of disrespect and dissapreciation .
And so it’s, it’s saying really it’s like eye rolling times a thousand, you know, and saying things like, um, that are disrespectful and harmful to the other’s character. I’m trying to think of some examples. I tried not to think in a contempt way, like,
K.Lee Marks: [00:48:26] look, looking down, looking what you touched on is, is really true. It’s the respect piece.
Right? And looking down on our partner, looking kind of making faces of disgust, even sarcasm, which I’m very guilty of it. In my, in my past partnership, sarcasm is a form of contempt. It’s sort of like this false facade thing and it’s really kind of meant to be higher than, and, uh, it, it just hurts. It hurts both people.
And the point about having it be difficult to come back from. It’s true. You have to build respect with someone and that is going to take behavior. That’s going to take a very conscious work in order to do so. I think that’s a really important point is like, if, if you see yourself being contemptuous towards your partner, you are not helping yourself.
You’re hurting yourself for what to speak of them.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:49:15] Right. What was the last thing you said, K.Lee? I’m sorry.
K.Lee Marks: [00:49:18] Uh, just that if, if we are being contented, if we find ourselves eye-rolling, you know, being saying contemptuous things to our partner, we’re not helping ourself. We are hurting our, our own inner connection with that person. And there’s a better way to go about handling it.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:49:34] Right. And, and I think that again, it’s like weaving some mindfulness. And, and self-realization into this is it’s like we’re losing the humanity. Like we’re losing appreciation for their essence and how this person is and how they carry themselves through their lives and the positive things that they do, the positive things that they contribute to the relationship and society.
And that’s, what’s interesting to you is that sometimes we can feel contempt towards someone and disrespect, and a lot of the time that’s coming from a place of hurt and it’s coming from a place of feeling misunderstood or coming from a place of mistrust and fear, you know? And so when we can really confront those things within ourself and try to rebuild and re-establish trust with that person and see the good things that they’re contributing, it can really heal the relationship, but it’s also going to heal ourselves and how we view each other.
And, you know, sometimes relationships need to end. Sometimes there’s a partner who has a lot of contempt. They’re constantly saying things that are detrimental to the relationship. They’re constantly saying things that are detrimental to you, you know, especially like narcissistic relationships can have a lot of, uh, contemptuous dialogue.
Um, and it, it requires two people. That’s what I want to emphasize is you can be listening to this podcast and be thinking of so many things you can bring into the relationship. And that’s fabulous. 100%. I think that you should do that. And you also deserve to be with someone who has this level of awareness and wants to reciprocate.
Because if you hear, if you hear these ideas around contempt and you’re like, oh, like I do that too. Oh my gosh. And then you actively try, um, not to communicate with contempt. First of all, that’s wonderful. Second of all, watch how it is reciprocated. And if you’re in a relationship where you’re continuously disrespectful and beat down, You might want to take a look at that?
You know, I’m always for relationship repair. That’s always like my number one thing is trying to repair the relationship with people. And sometimes it’s better off to break up.
K.Lee Marks: [00:51:40] It’s a hard line for people to, to find it’s a line that everyone has to figure out. And I’m, I’m trying to think of how I could give some words of guidance on there, but I think it’s such a intense, personal journey to discover what, what you’re willing to put up with or not. But I think one thing to get clear on is your needs and it’s actually a really confronting thing. What are your non-negotiable needs? And, and figuring that out will help with a guide map or like a, uh, some sort of framework for what is okay.
So yeah, if, if you’re, if you’re putting in and the other person is it’s not necessarily a sign to like give up, uh, but with the gentle or the soft startup with giving that feedback of, Hey, this is something I need, I need to, I need to feel like there’s not contempt because I care about our relationship so much.
And I know here’s this fancy article from the Gottman’s about contempt. Check it out. I know that this hurts us and I don’t want that. So are you willing to work with me on that? If, if after lots of negotiation, they’re still not willing. You, you can’t, you can’t work with someone who’s not willing to work with you.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:52:43] Right. Right. And, and for people who are listening, looking up the Gottman sound house, the Gottman relationship sound house, it shows how to construct a steady sound house for the relationship. And so maybe orienting your thoughts on things like that. Maybe we can talk about that after we discuss defensiveness.
K.Lee Marks: [00:52:58] Yeah. Let’s talk, let’s talk about defensiveness. And I think, you know, Christine and I are talking about we’re in negotiations about, uh, potential collaborations to talk more about this stuff, because it’s something we’re both really passionate about. So if that’s something you’re interested in, please follow astrologynow_ podcast, please follow me @thepodcastfarm on Instagram. Let us know, slide into the DM. Say talk more about relationships. Okay. Yeah. So defensiveness, what, what, what do you mean?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:53:26] I’m not defensive, you’re defensive.
K.Lee Marks: [00:53:28] I’m really defensive. I’m not even joking. I’m not, I’m not even joking. And I own my former partner, a lot of credit for teaching me about my defensiveness.
So what, what, what, why is defensiveness a problem.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:53:42] Defensiveness is a problem because it shuts down the potential of growth. Because a lot of the time, if someone is coming to us with a reflection and it’s something that we don’t necessarily want to see, of course we might feel defensive about it, and we might want to defend ourselves if we feel like it’s a personal attack on our character.
But a lot of the time when people have feedback, they’re just trying to get us to see that the way we’re acting, what we’re saying, how we’re being. Is having a certain impact on them. It’s having a certain effect on them. And that isn’t something that is completely irrepairable. That is something that can be looked at and approached and worked through.
If we’re willing to look at the feedback we’re getting, which would require us not to be defensive again, it’s like, if you come to me and you say, Hey, Christine, like the words that you’re using are really hurting me. I could choose to say, well, you’re just too sensitive. I I’m, I’m not doing anything wrong.
I’m mindful, you know, I’m a yoga teacher. I know what I do, or I could choose to slow down and be like, oh, how, how are my words hurting you? What’s going on? You know, can, can you tell me more about, um, what the exact words that I’m saying, how you interpret it, where it’s coming from? For me. Feedback is always an opportunity of growth.
It’s an opportunity for reflection. I’m not perfect at it. I can totally get defensive. I think it’s so human to have defensive moments. I think that what’s important is being able to stop it, realize what’s going on and take that opportunity for reflection so that ultimately we can grow. Um, did that answer your question?
K.Lee Marks: [00:55:24] Yeah. Yeah. And so I want to talk about this idea of, of D being defensive is a, is a triggered response to feedback. And so, again, check out this book, I’m not sponsored by them. I just want to help you all. Thanks for the feedback, the science and art of receiving feedback. Well, even when it’s off base, unfair, poorly delivered, and frankly, you’re not in the mood and it’s by Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen and they’re of the Harvard negotiation project.
So. They’re lawyers actually. And they, they know about law and language and it’s super, yeah, it’s super interesting lens to look at relationships on, uh, both in the workplace and at home, but feedback triggers us and we have different trigger responses and it’s a survival mechanism because it’s sort of like, do we need to change our course in life?
Are we in danger? So our amygdala gets triggered when feedback happens because we take it personally. We also make assumptions that we understand what their words mean exactly. And that they relate to our worth and our value and all that. Yeah. So, what I’m hearing is that curiosity is important, is that, is that one of the things you’re saying is that kind of having asking questions, having that learning attitude is, is an antidote for the defensiveness.
Christine Rodriguez : [00:56:38] I would say 100%. I think that curiosity can do so much to mitigate, um, the negative defensive behavior. What you said though, is super important in that most of the time we get defensive because we are trying to protect our identity, you know, and, and who we think we are. We want to stay. We want to believe that we are a certain way.
And maybe we uphold certain ideals. And just because somebody is giving us feedback that may not be in alignment with those ideals, we’re trying to uphold, it’s not an attack on our character. You know, so not taking things personally is going to be profoundly important, but it is a very, very difficult thing for people to do.
It’s incredibly difficult.
K.Lee Marks: [00:57:28] And why is it so hard?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:57:31] Because I mean, what you mentioned, it’s a threat, you know, it is a threat to our character. It’s a threat to the ideals that we uphold and it’s a survival technique. Um, And also taking it a few steps further is it could also be a childhood trigger response of being like, what if I’m left?
Like, what if this person leaves me because they think this thing about me or what if I get deserted? Because they think I don’t clean the dishes. Well, you know, because it gets into that part of our brain that goes back. It’s not, you know, defensiveness isn’t coming from who you and I are right here in this moment as adults, defensiveness is coming from a three-year-old inside of us, that’s terrified of upsetting our caregiver.
If we upset our caregiver, we could potentially be abandoned. And abandonment means death. All of these fears that we have, if we trace them back far enough, it goes back to death, you know? So that’s why these responses are so intense. And so. And it’s happening completely beneath the surface. It’s a completely subconscious response. You know.
K.Lee Marks: [00:58:37] I’m really glad you mentioned that the childhood piece and I, you know, brothers out there listening, uh, or those identifying as male? Uh, I feel that, that we as men, we stake our worth in our, in our rightness, if we’re right, that means our value is acknowledged and we are giving value. And, um, I definitely relate to that idea of being left if I’m wrong or in trouble, like deeply in trouble, if I’m wrong.
So without which is why it’s so important in our relationships with young people, how we see them and be with them when they mess up and when they do stuff so that we aren’t creating more defensive people, we don’t need more defensive people. We need more open people. We need more communication. We don’t need more walls.
And so I think that’s really important that you brought that up. And also, I just want to be cognizant of time as we are. We are getting here. Do you have another appointment?
Christine Rodriguez : [00:59:30] No.
K.Lee Marks: [00:59:30] Okay. Are you okay if we go over a little? Yeah, of course. Okay, cool. So, so yeah, I think that the, that one antidote is to understand why their feedback is going to help you as, as a human being grow.
And if you can get that piece, then it becomes way less uncomfortable. I just, I’m speaking for myself. I am a defensive person. I really care about being right. I really don’t want to be wrong and I’ve had to get more comfortable with that feeling in my body when I am triggered. And I feel defensive reading this book that I’ve recommended it, it breaks down the different triggers that happen, the different ways to organize feedback.
When it comes in the different questions to us, it gives scripts, you know, it really breaks it down. And I think it’s, it’s in tandem with mindfulness and meditation. And having actual hard tools and resources that you can bring out and use in the moment when you’re triggered. So I think having, having both of those, uh, is really essential for learning.
And then even the question, you know, can you admit to being defensive right now asking your partner something like that kind of helps pull them out of the moment and be like, okay, I can admit I’m being defensive. And, and I think that’s helpful as well as what I think you mentioned this other day, which is like, how old do you feel right now?
What part, you know, what’s the age of the part of you that’s speaking and that can also kind of help bring us back into the present.
Christine Rodriguez : [01:00:55] Wow , yeah, inner child work is so powerful. Um, and that is, that’s the primary therapy that I do personally, like with my therapist is inner child work. And so I think that understanding like the age of what we’re experiencing is so important and true.
I actually got this from one of my past partners as well is it’s treating people who are triggered, not in a condescending way, but treating people who are triggered like their children, like from a space of love. Yeah. Like, oh my gosh, like I see you’re triggered, what can we do to make this better? You know?
Like, what do you need right now? How can we make this more comfortable? You know, it’s not like shut up brat. You know, I don’t, I don’t want to hear it. Like, that’s the worst way to handle it. Handle a child who is triggered. So understanding that for you yourself, when you’re triggered. It’s, it’s not a mature, loving adult response.
It’s a wounded child response. And so you have to tend to yourself in a way that feels loving and gentle and compassionate. And when we get used to tending to ourselves that way, again, it becomes so much easier to tend to other people well, that way and like, oh, like your wounded child is hurting. Okay.
Like, do you need time? Do you need space? Do you need to cuddle? You know, what, what do you need? And so it makes it easier. And there was something else that you said that I really wanted to touch on. That was so important. Take your time. Yeah. I mean, you said so many amazing things, just right.
K.Lee Marks: [01:02:23] How old do you feel? And then I was, uh, the feedback, taking feedback, the triggers having scripts. Yes.
Christine Rodriguez : [01:02:29] So this is also where mindfulness and self realization becomes such a powerful key because the less that you identify with your ego and the less that you identify with this concept of you being right, and there being one objective truth.
How many objective trues are there. There’s like very, very little, not many. Most of the truths of our reality are completely subjective and from our individual perspective. And so when we get really, really clear on that and we stop identifying with my name is Christine. I am ethical. I’m virtuous. I’m not defensive.
I’m not blah, blah, blah, all these things that I want to create about this ego, you know, I can separate myself from that. And if someone’s like Christine, like you’re kind of being mean. There could be a part of me is like, there’s no way I’m being mean. I practice yoga. I meditate every day. I read these scriptures.
That’s not a mean person. I could choose to do that. And then stay locked in this identity that I’m creating for myself. Or I could be like, oh, How am I being mean what’s going on? How can give me more information so that I can do better to actually be that person I want to be.
K.Lee Marks: [01:03:38] Yes. Yes. And that is, uh, like a helpful term for me is personhood versus behavior, or like you were talking earlier about not attacking people’s character so we can separate out, okay.
My behavior is causing this person to give me this feedback. Doesn’t mean that my personhood, my character is flawed that I am a worthy person or, you know?
Christine Rodriguez : [01:04:00] Yeah. And I think that it requires that again with both people, if we can really understand that and integrate that, because once we communicate with each other, it’s different too.
So like, if you do something wrong and I’m coming to you from a place of understanding that your personhood isn’t that way I can be like K.Lee , What’s going on, man. Like you’re not usually this way. Like what’s how how’s, how are you? Like where’s this behavior coming from these, and it’s also acknowledging like, Hey, I know you’re a good person.
I know that you’re filled with love. Like, where is this coming from? You know, it, it changes the dynamic and the communication. Um, and the other thing that’s super important is that our intimate relationships and our partners are an incredibly valuable tool because they are going to be able to mirror and reflect things to us that nobody else on earth gets to see because our intimate partners are the ones lucky enough to be able to trigger those really deep responses that nobody else can touch.
So they’re going to get to see those really deep parts of ourselves that come up and it’s so valuable to listen and hear what they have to say, because a lot of other people aren’t going to be able to see that.
K.Lee Marks: [01:05:05] Yeah, this is the new model of partnership in the 21st century is, is their greatest friend ally reflect.
And relationship is a path. It’s a crucible. It’s, it’s a transform transformative process, especially if we choose to see it that way. And we get in as much as we put out and, uh, or we put in, we get out as much as we put in. And, uh, I think that is just amazing info that you’ve shared. So those are the four horsemen.
If you’re interested in that highly recommend checking out any of the Gottman’s work. And I highly recommend going to the relationship school.com, listening to the relationship school podcast, uh, Jason Gadiss is doing incredible work combining all folks like the Gottman’s like Esther Perell, like, um, just, and anyone you can name in the relationship space, Stan Tatkin, putting all that information together and teaching people how to do conflict.
Well, how to do relationship. Well, so a little plug there for my mentor, Jason, cause he’s incredible and he’s really transformed my life. And so as we’re getting towards the tail end of our amazing interview, it’s been so fantastic to have you. I did want to touch on. Kind of practical element of your media empire, which is Patreon and membership sites.
And I know that’s like a. It could seem like a hard switch in our conversation, but what you’re doing with Patreon is you’ve built all these relationships with your audience and you have monetized your podcast by having some of your content behind a paywall. And I think it’s a, it’s a great strategy for, for newer podcasters.
It’s an alternative to sponsorships and it’s actually probably increases engagement. So maybe you could talk a little bit about how that started, uh, any advice for, for podcasts. Who’s trying to implement a more membership based model.
Sure. So
Christine Rodriguez : [01:06:54] with my on account, it’s patrion.com/astrology now podcast. And I post two other podcasts a week.
Um, one of them is where I do weekly horoscopes for each of the 12 Zodiac signs every Monday. So if you’re wanting to plan your week in accordance to the stars and how they’re impacting you individually, I do that every Monday. And then on Thursday, I post an educational class. Um, it is a little bit of a higher tier for that one, but if you’re interested in learning astrology, I do that too.
I also have classes and a patron social. Um, I really did create it with the intention of creating community. And what you said was really important is that building relationships with these people, and it’s absolutely phenomenal. I feel so grateful and so humble. Like there are some people on the Patreon page who are doing such amazing, incredible, beautiful things with their lives.
And I just feel grateful to have them, um, Have their presence. So if you’re listening to this as a patreon member, just please know that I’ve so much immense appreciation, respect for you. And for other people who are looking to start a Patreon account. It’s similar to what I said it was the podcast is that you should really just go ahead and do it.
And a lot of the time you can create a Patreon account just so that you get donations. And if people like your work, they’ll subscribe to your Patreon account. And maybe you can do something once a month. You can do something every week just to give them something in return. But a lot of the time people will love to sponsor you because you’re offering them something for free, you know, and they want to sponsor your work.
I’ve seen a lot of people. I’ve seen a lot of professionals do that. And if you are looking to produce more content and have more contents behind that paywall, like you were discussing, what I will say is be very careful with how you price things on Patrion. Because once you have someone subscribed to a tier, you can’t change that number.
So be really mindful and make sure that you are. Getting what you’re worth. And you and I have spoken about this K.Lee in terms of having, like, what is it, sustainable outreach. Is that what you called it? Okay. So, because I mean, no matter what you’re doing, if you’re a healer, if you’re someone who is trying to serve the world and you’re trying to do good things, you still absolutely need to be, um, reciprocated for, for the work that you’re doing and the effort that you’re putting in.
So don’t have shame in wanting to create a Patreon . Don’t have shame for wanting to get paid for what you’re doing. It’s really important that you have a wealth to sustain you. And I mean, even looking at it, looking at it from a Vedantic standpoint and you all probably hear me talk about this all the time.
There is a concept where we have to have wealth so that we can fulfill our Dharma, our purpose in life and reach higher states of self-realization and awareness. So money is absolutely necessary and important, and I just really encourage people to ask for what they’re worth and be a re have that reciprocation.
K.Lee Marks: [01:09:57] That is super helpful. And so just to break it down a little bit farther, A podcaster is putting out all the, all these regular episodes. They can create an account and nothing more than just create an account and that could encourage donations. And then beyond that, they could create a simple three, two.
Just as an example, you could create a three or more tier offering. So for $5, and I’m looking on your site for $5, you get this package, maybe that is like some private yeah. Content that no one else gets, or maybe that’s just open. Then you have another tier, maybe like $12 a month. And that’s another level of offering you.
You, maybe you do a weekly personal message or maybe you do another extra episode a month and put it out through there, whatever. And then it goes on and so forth. And you’re also mentioning to be mindful of setting the proper price for that work. So. You can sustain it because you can’t change it once it’s there.
So you don’t want to lose any of your patron patrons, patrons, because of that, is that, is that correct?
Christine Rodriguez : [01:10:58] It is. And you know, you can always change things in the future. Like you can always create another tier and then unpublished one. So it’s not like an impossible thing to navigate. Just be careful with pricing. If you’re making a Patrion page, like get really clear about it.
K.Lee Marks: [01:11:10] Yeah. That makes total sense. And, and just, uh, the gratitude and the building, that relationship I’m really hearing from you about how, excuse me, about how you feel towards your patron, patrons, and how you interact with them. Any tips on, on cultivating that relationship with your listeners to get them on Patreon?
Christine Rodriguez : [01:11:29] Sure well to get them on Patreon. Um, I don’t, you know, I mean, I may communicate with people on Instagram. I may send people private messages or respond to their questions. I’m always trying to connect with people in that way. Um, I also will take questions through email and then answer them either through Instagram or through, um, through the podcast.
So those are things that I’ve done before as well, just to increase some engagement. And I have found though another way of doing it is that once people are patrons, first of all, I have the patron social. So once a month we get together and we actually talk face to face, and I have a relationship with these individuals who show up.
And the other thing is that I do a patron spotlight where I interview a patron about their life and their quests with astrology and self-realization, and then I’ll post it. And then I talk about that on the public platform and be like, talking about the relationships or the Patreon spotlight so that people know like, Hey, this is actually a place where community is building it’s.
It’s not like I disappear from the planet. I’m very engaged with the patron members. I’m always commenting back to their responses, always in communication with them. And I think that if someone has that engagement on, on Patreon and they talk about it on their public platform, it is going to draw people in if they’re searching for community.
K.Lee Marks: [01:12:52] Yeah. Yeah. And, and so you, uh, how do I want to just clarify for the listeners? How, what, what mechanism do you let people know that you have the Patreon?
Christine Rodriguez : [01:13:03] Through my public podcast? I’ll do it at the beginning.
And, and would you mind sharing, like your framing of that offer. Sure. This is so much fun. I love podcast farm.
It’s like, I get to talk about things I don’t talk about with anybody else.
K.Lee Marks: [01:13:19] So we’re all about, we’re all about marketing. We’re all about sales. We’re all about service. We’re all about amplifying what we love. And there is an element to the podcast platform and to, to running these online businesses, that is, it’s really fun.
It is like a game it’s and it’s also, it’s about communication. It’s about relationships. It’s like, how do I make sure my message is coming across? And so it’s so helpful when someone has a successful model. That when they share it with others, because we can, we go off of data, you know, and everyone has to tune this up to themselves.
But I think hearing kind of the way you phrase it will be really helpful for everyone.
Christine Rodriguez : [01:13:51] Yeah. And so the way that I phrase it is I’m like, look like if you like this podcast, if you listened to it every week, I have a platform where I post at least one extra segment every week. So you’ll get 50% more astrology.
Now in your week, if you do one tear up, you know, that’s two extra podcasts, that’s three astrology now podcasts in your week, which is a lot of content, you know, but really how I approach it whenever I’m talking about it in the space is I have a patreon account. I post more weekly. So if you want more in your week, you can go and find it on Patrion.
And I have weekly horoscopes. So if you’re wanting to align your week with the stars and have astrological guidance weekly on Monday, I’m doing that on Patreon . So that’s really what I emphasize because I think that. That’s a lot of value. You know, I talk about the value that I’m going to be contributing using my Patrion account and for people who love astrology, they hear that.
And they’re like, wow, I would love to, you know, live my week in accordance to astrology. It’s something that is helpful. It’s providing a service and it’s just sharing what I can provide.
K.Lee Marks: [01:15:01] So, if you are interested in this, please go to patrion.com backslash astrology. Now podcast, you can also find Christine on at astrology now underscore podcast on Instagram.
Uh, her website is inner knowing dot. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, you have an amazing thing going on. You’re doing so much service for your community. You’re giving people a lot of guidance and insight, and you’re mixing both the esoteric and the spiritual with some really grounded, practical, psycho psychology relationship, attachment theory, life, coaching, nutrition, all this grounded stuff, you’re mixing it.
And so Christine is one of the most remarkable coaches that I’ve seen on the scene right now, mixing all of these traditional ancient wisdom traditions with cutting edge science and, and social work. So please go follow her checkout astrology now podcasts as we’re winding up, I always ask my guests a couple of rapid fire questions.
Are you good with that? Can I ask you a couple rapid fire?
Christine Rodriguez : [01:16:03] Yes, I’ve just, I’ve been waiting. Okay. I’m ready for the rapid fire questions waiting to say this really quick though. K.Lee You are seriously, one of the most sincere, genuine. People I know like your heart is just so good and you ask such sincere questions that it’s obvious that you really care about the people that you’re interviewing and you really want to understand their perspective.
And I just applaud you and respect you so much for constantly wanting to grow and expand and serve and uplift. It’s just like, I know your, um, your intentions are so good and I, I’m just so relieved and refreshed with that. Every single time I talk to you and it’s just such a privilege to be on your podcast.
And I really, really appreciate that.
K.Lee Marks: [01:16:49] I feel so seen respected, honored, and loved, and just, I feel, I feel really good hearing that. Thank you so much for sharing that with me and really appreciate that. That’s definitely my intention is to, um, give my presence to my guests and share beautiful, wonderful.
Knowledge and value with, with the audience, with anyone who comes across this podcast and to amplify what I love. And I love the work that you’re doing. I love how you show up in life. I’ve known you for many years and watching you in your collection of all these amazing tools and resources and knowledge, and combining it into the offering that you have now, it’s really exceptional.
And so again, I just, please go check out this wonderful soul’s, uh, online representation, avatar, go check it out, interact with her podcast and her community. It’s it’s really amazing. And yeah. So, okay. Rapid fire questions. Here we go. What is your greatest fear? No, I’m joking. Joking. No, no, that’s not. That’s not actually the question.
The question is what is one book that you would like the entire world to know?
Christine Rodriguez : [01:17:52] Wow. Polishing the mirror by Ram Das, totally transformed my life and it changed my view of death and then therefore my view of life. And so I highly recommend polishing the mirror by Ram Das. Um, and I just have to give a plug for one of my very favorite people.
James braha. He has a book ancient, Hindu astrology for the modern Western astrologer.
And I think it’s a great resource to begin learning Vedic, astrology, and he’s so much fun. And so I just wanted to give him a shout out too.
K.Lee Marks: [01:18:24] Amazing. Second rapid fire question. What is a podcast that you, that you really love to listen to?
Christine Rodriguez : [01:18:32] Wisdom of the Sages is one that I listened to the most often with and I listen, I try to listen to every day.
Sometimes I’ll listen to two a day and then I love Be On Air. Those are actually my two favorite.
K.Lee Marks: [01:18:46] Oh, that means a lot. Thank you. Yeah. Wisdom of a Sage of the sages is a fantastic, uh, daily devotional, Vedic exploration with two incredible human beings and they have guests and they are amazing. And, uh, Raganath was on Joe Rogan and shared some of the Vedic knowledge there.
So he’s really helping amplify some of these amazing truths from, from India. So, uh, then moving to our very last segment. Is there anything that you would like to broadcast? This is a moment for you to amplify what you love and to have some airtime, to just share with the world and anyone tuning in, uh, something from your heart.
Christine Rodriguez : [01:19:27] So something that I’ve been thinking about recently is keeping our hearts open. Even if we disagree, that’s something that I’ve been thinking about a lot, um, because we’re in this point of time where there’s a lot of division and there’s a lot of controversy and. People will completely cut others out of their life because of a disagreement on a belief.
And I think that if we can really work to keep our hearts open in these conversations, it’s going to do so much to change the environment and, and change how we approach the world. So approaching each individual with respect, appreciation, and love, despite if they’re totally on board with everything that we think is true, because again, there, there is no, there, there are very, very few truths in this world that are 100% correct, and that are objective.
A lot of what we find to be true is filtered through our own perception and our own experience. And so really allowing there to be room for many things to be true or possible, I think is, is a really, really important thing to keep in mind. Right now.
Yes. Yes.
K.Lee Marks: [01:20:39] Beautifully said. And, uh, I’d like to end on that note with a poem, from Hafiz.
Perfect. If God invited you to a party, if God invited you to a party and said, everyone in the ballroom tonight will be my special guest, how would you then treat them when you arrived? Indeed, indeed. And if he’s knows, there is no one in this world who is not upon his jeweled dance floor. So with that, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much for sharing everything that you’ve been working on. I’d love to have you on again and everyone. Please go check out astrology now podcast. It will give you some serious next level upgrades to your business, professional, romantic life. And Christine. Thank you. Have a beautiful, blessed day.
Christine Rodriguez : [01:21:29] Thank you, K.Lee. You too.
