In this week’s episode of Be On Air we dive into long-form content with the host of The VonDubCast Nick Von Wackerbarth. Nick is a fantastic example of what it means to be passionate and driven for his show. His motivation to express himself through genuine conversations is powerful. He emphasizes that even the small achievements along the way are what matter most in the path to success.
We discuss the fundamentals of long form content, the power of deep conversation, faith, the future of podcasting, masculinity, as well as meditation and how mindset is critical for accomplishing your goals. The biggest obstacle for many is themselves and Nick embodies how his introspective journey to find the passion within himself for the podcasting medium has given him more opportunities to express some of his deepest and most vulnerable thoughts and ideas.
[00:00:30] Intro [00:02:58] Who is Nick Von Wackerbarth? [00:04:36] Working while Podcasting [00:06:13] How Covid affected Nick’s work [00:09:44] Understanding Covid Protocols [00:15:09] Where podcasting is going? [00:21:22] Role Models in Podcasting [00:29:54] What makes a show engaging? [00:35:46] The power of Faith and Audience [00:44:39] How podcasting grows your network and builds connections [00:57:16] Conveying intent, depth and listening in conversation [01:08:00] What drew Nick to podcasting? [01:14:27] Compassion and Understanding [01:27:39] Masculinity [01:47:29] Meditation [02:03:37] How to find The VonDubCast?
Instagram: @thevondubcast
Twitter: @dub_von
The VonDubCast Youtube Channel
Want to talk about your podcast? Connect with K.Lee and Podcast Farm
Book a free strategy session to talk about your podcast:
Join the podcast farmers FB group and grow your show!
K.Lee Marks: [00:00:30] Hey everyone. Welcome back. Today’s episode is unique and it is my first long interview with Nick Von Wackerbarth. And he is the host of The Von Dub Cast, which is a fantastic podcast that is all long form interviews with diverse individuals from MMA to authors, to personal development, to just different friends and interesting people with good stories.
And I highly recommend everyone go check it out. He is a extremely cool passionate dude. He loves podcasting. He knows a ton about it. He’s a manager in his business and has a lot of great advice to share on how to do this. This thing, this podcasting thing, and how to grow your platform, how to think about it and how to leverage it , like what he loves about it.
And I think that you guys will get a lot out of it. Then we also got into some really interesting topics because this is a longer interview, like healing, childhood wounds, um, relationships, masculinity, presence, mindfulness, meditation, spirituality, self-development it got really interesting. So I encourage you to stick around timestamp notes are going to be here and, uh, thanks again for tuning in. Enjoy the episode y’all. Nick. It’s great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for making time to come on and have a long form conversation. The first of its kind here on beyond air.
So welcome. It’s good to, it’s good to see you, man.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:01:58] Thanks so much. And it’s an honor. Uh, you’ve been, uh, more than, uh, helpful in my journey and I’ve learned so much from you already then. I’m excited. Any more opportunities I have to kind of pick your brain in short form or long form. I’m all I’m here for it. Cause I learned every time I talked to you, I learned something new. So I’m here for it as much as I can take in.
K.Lee Marks: [00:02:16] Yeah, it’s going to be fun. Um, one of the things I love about you Nick, is that you’re, you’re extremely passionate about podcasting and about this platform. And that’s one of the reasons I wanted to bring you on.
And you know, us aside from your wonderful show, the Von dub cast, which you know, is you’ve put out over 30 episodes, you’ve put out a lot of episodes, a lot of great content and that’s all long form and it’s super fascinating. And I’m, I’m excited to just sort of like hear more about you and your background and where you’re coming from.
And I was thinking a little bit about like, what’s the first thing I’m going to ask him. And rather than asking you, which I do want to ask you to tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do and what you’re up to. Um, I’m I wanted to ask you something kind of like that, that would give us more of a insight into who you are.
So what what’s something that people might not expect about you.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:03:12] Well, I would say that that would be kind of a different question, depending on the people. I feel like I’m so many, so much of a different person to different people. That’s kind of how I grew up. I grew up in a small town and I was very much a community chameleon, whatever it needed to be.
If I was with my hockey friends, that’s what I was. I was the big sports guy. If I was, you know, with more of a, you know, a nerdier group, I was, could pull up the intellectual side. So I grew up being able to show very different sides of myself to, different people. So I think what would surprise one person would not surprise the other.
And I think, uh, it feels like lately with how much, uh, adult life has kind of grown in overgrown onto my life. It seems like what would surprise people the most right now is probably my goofy side and just, uh, how much I love just making people laugh and going for the joke at all times and being completely the opposite of, of, uh, of serious.
And now with the role that I do at work and my day job, and now kind of how I went about starting my podcast and the intellectual era or area, I kind of took it in and start thinking that, Oh, I can always bring it back to Celia, which I’m finding is a lot harder than I thought it would be is to bring it kind of, you know, toe heel away from the serious topics and go back into silliness and bring it back.
You know, you see Joe Rogan do it every week. Why can’t I, and, uh, It hasn’t quite worked like that. And again, I’m not even a year into it, so I’m figuring it out on the fly, but I’d say probably how silly I am would probably be surprised people the most overall.
K.Lee Marks: [00:04:36] Yeah. So, you know, what, what do you do when you’re not podcasting? Let’s, let’s go there and let’s talk a little bit about that.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:04:44] So I would say the thing I do when i’m not podcasting is that if I’m not listening to podcasts, I’m at work and for work, I do a bulk fuel. So we have a company that delivers, um, fuel and lubricants, like engine oils and, uh, transmission oils out to companies.
Uh, I live in Northern Alberta, which is a very oil field centric,, place. And, uh, kind of do that like today was the first big, uh, Canada, whether it seems like it was the nicest winter we’ve ever seen, it was warm weather. And then we just got stuck with, uh, you know, a foot of snow here today. So it was, uh, one of those crazy ones, trucks in the ditches and, you know, crisis going all over and putting fires out.
But that’s kind of what I do with the day to day. And then, you know, you try and shut that down at five and not think about it. The thing with my job is it’s a 24 seven gig. You know, you have guys out on the road, you know, employees working all the time. You have to make sure that you’re always there for them, if something comes up.
So, uh, it’s a little bit tough for me. I found the first, a couple of times I tried to sit down for three hours of long form and turn my phone off. It was anxiety inducing. And just to not know what was going on and now, you know, 45 episodes later, it’s a lot less of that. If it’s, especially if it’s not during work hours, if it’s after work or before work, it’s not as bad, but that’s usually what keeps me, keeps me busy.
Other than that, you know, I like sports as well. I watch sports. I’m definitely a big podcast guy listened to podcasts. Uh, every, every waking moment that I can when I’m running, when I’m working out, when I’m driving, I do that all the time. And then, uh, Yeah, it’s, it’s pretty much between work and podcasts.
That takes up all my time. It seems did. Um, did COVID affect your operations with, uh, with the company? Oh yeah, it does. It, it affected everybody. And I think, uh, just for your listeners that are in America or Canada, we definitely, uh, you know, took it very seriously and lock things down very quickly, maybe too quickly, some would say.
And the effects that we’re feeling now, um, are definitely, you know, I’m making a strong argument for some people that maybe it wasn’t the right choice to do, but those were the rules and that’s kind of what Canada does. We follow. We’re very much a rule following culture. So everybody jumped to it, uh, because we are an essential business, right?
Fuel is something everyone needs, especially, you know, maybe that doesn’t, if you’re, if you’re from Florida, maybe that doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. But when you live in minus 40 environments, like Northern Canada, fuel and heat, and being able to transport yourself to a hospital, say like, fuel is a very much a, uh, important resource.
So we had to stay open. But what we had to do was when it all kind of came down, that was, you know, my job was how can I keep my people safe? Okay. So can we keep the drivers cordoned off? They just come in their trucks, we had paperwork through the door, they don’t see them. Dispatchers are locked in this office.
They, but they don’t have a washroom. Okay. So let’s call it let’s instead of having a men’s and women’s washroom, let’s close one for the office staff one for all the other ones come in the backdoor. Right. Just things like that out of just. How do you coordinate it? Remind it, this might be a weird analogy, but it reminded me of being in space.
So all the science fiction I read and, you know, with the airlocks and you kind of have everything sectioned off so that there’s no contamination. And that’s kind of what we did right off the start, which was funny because living in Northern Alberta, it really took some time. We were putting all these things in place and there wasn’t even a COVID case in, in the place that I lived for probably four weeks at that point.
Right. Like th th it hadn’t come and now since then it’s changed a lot and it’s definitely become expansive, but that’s kind of how it affected us. And we jumped to it so quickly. And we’re so overbearing with the rules that we put in place. Then once we got more of an idea of what was going on, we backed off some of those.
And then as, you know, numbers Rose, we could put those things back in place and we’re already ready for it because we jumped right to as, as much as we could, like full, full on, uh, conditions at the start. And then we were able to kind of put them back and put, pull them away as we, as we needed them and kind of following what the governmental rules are.
But it seems like over time, those are getting, you know, weirder and weirder and not making much sense that we’re kind of doing our own thing and just making sure. At the end of the day, we just want to protect our people and make sure they’re safe at the end of the day. And they can come to work, make a living, put food on the table for their family, but not put themselves at risk.
And that’s what we do. And it seemed like for a while we do that, we would just follow what the government said, but now it seems like we need to kind of do our own homework and figure out what is going to keep them safe, uh, on our own. And you know, that’s probably the lesson we probably should have learned before this whole thing came up and we didn’t knew didn’t need to learn it on the fly at people’s expense.
But I think a lot of people made that mistake of just, Nope, they’re going to tell us what to do. This will be the right thing. If we just follow this, everything will be okay. And I think that’s just a, a lesson, probably a lot of us knew not to follow, but just that instinct in that fear really push dizzy down that, down that path,
K.Lee Marks: [00:09:12] man, it scared the hell out of me when it, when reports were first happening.
I mean, it’s like 28 days later and all the movies that we’ve watched before kind of starts to brew. And, um, I think all the, all the ammunition in Texas or, or maybe beyond was, was out, it was just like so many things. It was quite crazy. I’m wondering what was it like? I mean, having to manage that many people and deal with protocols and stuff, I can’t even imagine what, like, how did you get educated on what needed to be put into place was the resources.
And that just seems like such a complex problem.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:09:44] Yeah, I think, uh, for myself was something that I was at a point where I had, you know, I have my feelings. If you listen to my podcast, you’ll hear it right away, whatever episode you jump into, I have my own feelings on kind of the main stream media and kind of the information you get from it and not just the information, but how the information is packaged and all the things that come with it.
And I found throat, this was, it was just fear all the time and that’s what they’re trying to do. Right. And I had never really watched, I had turned off the mainstream news cause I realized I wasn’t getting much out of it for a long time. But then when COVID hit, I realized, you know, there’s, uh, regulations that are coming up change by the hour.
I need to watch this. I was forced to watch it and get the updates every day. And for about a month and a half, two months, I did right along with all my podcasts. And I found that’s where I got the real information I’d listened to these news. They would, you know, read off a script and not really say anything.
You didn’t get any information. They didn’t really help you. And then after the fact, then I’d listened to podcasts and I’d be getting this information, right. Joe Rogan had that guy on his podcast very early on a, an expert in, uh, infectious diseases or whatever it was. And he scared the crap out of people that, and what was cool for me, not cool.
Maybe it’s a poor, poor choice of words there, but it was interesting for me as somebody that cares about podcasts so much and realize the power of the industry so much to see how the reaction once Joe had that guy on and. They talked about it and really kind of scared because people weren’t taking it seriously before that, and to watch the switch like that, the next day on all the media sites that they, the, the, the general feeling around the world had changed from one person.
But, you know, that is a very scary topic and it’s scary that it had to happen that way for that lesson to be shown so clearly. But for some people,
K.Lee Marks: [00:11:21] he had Alex Jones right. On one side. So it’s like, Oh, okay. So he not only can hold space for, he bust the conspiracy theories, but he’ll like, give it some attention if he believes it’s legit. So it’s like, he has more trust than CNN something.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:11:34] Right. And, and I think that’s, uh, that’s something that’s lost today. It seems like you’re either on one of two sides, either you’re all in, on the conspiracy theories or you are all out on them. And anybody that even looks at them or gives them the time of day is a bad person.
I think that’s a dangerous place to be. And I think what, what do you see the, the, the specialists come out and it’s those people that can walk that line. Right. I, I like to count myself as one of those people where I don’t, you know, I don’t go down those YouTube QAnon on rabbit holes. I don’t watch any of that stuff.
I try to take in those information, like, get that information through another stream. Right. If you hear it through. A podcast that you trust, right? The Weinstein brothers I’d say Bret Weinstein was probably the a and his wife, Heather. Sorry, I shouldn’t just say him, but their podcasts, the dark horse pockets.
They’re two evolutionary biologists, very knowledgeable with viruses and how it works and spreading and what you can do to yourself, for yourself to protect yourself. And I found that they were one of the biggest, uh, pieces of information or the biggest, uh, I don’t even know what the word is, but just, uh, centers for, for, for truth.
And, and like everybody else, they were getting stuff wrong as it went and they were adjusting on the fly, but they were so quick when they said something wrong to adjust and say the next spot. Okay. Before we start this next podcast, you know, two podcasts ago, we said, um, uh, UV light is, uh, is very safe. If you’re outside, you’re, you’re completely safe.
And they’re saying, okay, we’re gotten new information. There’s new studies. And that may not be as true as we thought. We think it now has more to do with air density of being outside. It really dissipates. And it’s Hartford traveled the viral load, just doesn’t get to that area. So being outside is still safe, but for a different reason.
Right. And that’s what I loved. It. Wasn’t that infantilization that felt like you were getting from everywhere else where it didn’t matter. If there was more nuance they could give to the information, they felt like you couldn’t handle it. So they would just in turn, give you the basics of the information and hope that, uh, they could come up with the best rules that just give you the basics would, uh, would be enough and not allow you to have that actual information to do with it.
Yourself, what you want with it. And that w that’s where I found podcasts really filled that gap and gave me that information where I got the party line from the mainstream media of what they were saying, and then took, you know, my own knowledge from these podcasts, my own research, and then amalgamated those two things and made, uh, an effective, uh, framework to navigate this new COVID world.
Right. And I found that framework that I built through a lot of work and a lot of hours, and a lot of study was very much different from anything I was hearing anywhere. Right. And I think there are some podcasts that got close. Like I said, the dark, dark horror podcasts was awesome for that, but it just really shine a light on how, how tough it was.
I think, to get good information for people, right? Like not a lot of people are going to willing to put in that many hours to find something good. And they’re just going to take the easiest one that’s given to them and you can’t blame them for it. Right. So that was a, that was very eyeopening for me, for myself.
K.Lee Marks: [00:14:22] The power of the podcast platform to be a sort of like parallel processing, every, all these different great minds are thinking and consuming a, an idea or a thought, and they’re pushing it forward in there.
You know, it’s, it’s a way more authentic form of news in some ways, like obviously if the reporters out on the field and they have a camera and there’s somewhere where a podcast, isn’t, they’re going to have some sort of eyewitness news, but, but we were at this exciting time where there’s so much information in these people, these independent platforms that are coming out and trying to share truth are just so exciting.
And it’s, so it seems like a, a bridge actually from what we were talking about with COVID to, to now this platform, and I love that you brought up the dark horse podcast because I love the Weinstein brothers and Oh, they’re great. Yeah. And that shows great too. So what’s your take on, on this, you know, long form content and the, where podcasting is going.
You’ve been, you’ve been into this for awhile. Could you talk to us a little bit while I change my battery?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:15:22] Yeah, of course I can talk to that for probably six hours here. Just that one topic alone. But before I get to it, I just wanted to say how much I love the words you use there, parallel processing. I feel like that’s exactly what it is.
And I feel like everybody is processing information and then spitting it back out. That’s kind of, you know, 21st century media, whatever it is, whether it’s mainstream or podcasts. And I feel like what is becoming so apparent is the different levels of processing that happens when it’s a podcast and it’s going through one person’s head and getting straight out to the viewer or the listeners right from there.
That’s so many different layers of pro of processing that it doesn’t go through. Whereas on a newsletter that goes through a, you know, an editor and a producer and, and the show runner, and they’re all adding their levels of processing onto this. And, you know, podcast may be parallel to that, but the actual amount of processing that goes through is so much less.
And I think for some reason, I don’t think this has to happen, but for some reason when that many people get together, it seems like through the processing, a lot of the truth is lost and a lot of the nuances knocked off of it. Right? And they get into this shiny package that they want to hand to people.
And it’s very digestible, but it lacks a lot of that nuance and a lot of the. Yeah. Yeah. The meat. Yeah, the depth, exactly the depth that, uh, that needs to be there, especially in a time like this, where you need depth for understanding. And this is all gonna tie back into the question that you asked. I think that is what the power of long form, uh, and podcast is.
I think it’s two, I think it’s, two-fold, I think it’s separate issues. I think there’s a power to long form and I think there’s a power just to that unprocessed information, right. Because I think podcasts do it, but I think also YouTube channels, I think YouTube channels kind of showed this, this before pod cast, right?
Where you see these kids, um, started YouTube channel, moved down to LA and they’re just bringing authentic, authentically themselves out to the people without going through any layers. It’s just exactly their vision. And they let people come to them and find that. And I feel like there’s so much power in that itself.
And then also there’s a power to long form. And I feel like what the power of long form is, is, uh, it, it takes that and then expands upon it. So now you build up this trust of somebody that it’s not this information that’s coming to you is not, you know, getting twisted and turned to make money off of it and to, you know, sell it, sell things, you’re getting that.
But then also you’re allowed to build up that trust. And I feel like that’s what happens on Joe Rogan when, when he has somebody on that is maybe very polarizing and on any other, um, format, you know, they get five minutes and then a commercial break and they can’t really get their points across. So what they have to do is just condense it down to the, the most, uh, You know, show-stopping, uh, sound bites and that’s what they throw out, but that’s that lacks all that depth.
That’s that same issue that we just discussed, uh, with it going through many processing levels. And I feel like, um, by allowing, you know, just using Joe Rogan, as an example, allowing three hours for you to learn who they are, learn their, you know, see their decision-making process and action, see them challenged, see how much you trust them.
And it doesn’t mean that you have to trust them 100%. You can see where their, where their blind spots are. And you can take that into your own framework. So, you know, this person that comes on, yeah. They have a, a pretty big blind spot here in here, which may be, doesn’t allow them to see this issue as a, as a whole, but on the areas that they do understand it, now that I gave them the time of day.
And maybe on any other platform you wouldn’t have gotten to there because when you heard those things that turned you off, you would have turned it right off. But because there’s more to it and more nuance, you allow them to get to places that they never would have beforehand. And I think that is something that, uh, people don’t realize they’re missing.
Until they listen to a podcast and they find like, Oh man, you know that feeling when you listen to a good podcast and it feels like you’re just part of a conversation and it feels so good. And you just want to talk to somebody about it. I feel like that is something that people don’t realize they’re missing because not only is that happening on our, on the media side where everything’s getting condensed down, but on the actual consumer side too, you know, everything is, Instagram is quick hits on to the next thing and onto the next thing.
And, you know, conversation turns to that. And even when you do have a conversation with somebody, the phones come out in between, and it really breaks that down and you don’t have any sort of long form conversation in any way available to you and podcasts seem to be the only way that are kind of, you know, um, bootstrapping that back into society, um, through a different means.
And I think it’s just showing people the power and if they realize that and take it and actually take it in, they might see that, you know, putting their phone away and just having a conversation with their friends or their family would yield these results that they didn’t know were missing. And right.
And I think that is what the power of it is. And then, I mean, there’s, uh, that, that is the, the true power of it. But then I think people are still tapping into what you can do with that power. I think somebody like Joe Rogan has kind of paving the way of showing people there’s different ways to make money.
I think we talked about it maybe when you came on my show, but the ways that Joe Rogan goes about making money is so differently than other people and it’s so in tune with the medium and what he built upon it, that it can’t really be matched by anybody else. And for that reason, I don’t think people see it.
And I feel like people are so up in arms over that a hundred million Spotify deal. But if you understand how he’s going about it, that is a drop in the bucket compared to some of the other things he’s doing. And, and it’s so funny to me that he can be this, you know, worldwide phenomena and still be that misunderstood by people that are still so missing the Mark.
But to me, that gets me really excited because not just shows me that that power that’s in podcasting and everyone always says, why did you start a podcast? There’s a million podcasts, you know, it’s over saturated. It’s not, it’s really not. And people don’t understand that power. It’s it’s so the opposite of oversaturated, it’s not even funny, but it’s, it takes such a, you have to understand it so deeply to understand that it’s not saturated, that all these people that are, you know, periphery players don’t realize it.
And it’s cool. It’s cool to be on the inside of that. And just be like, you keep thinking that way, we’ll just keep chugging along and we’ll grow something. And then eventually it becomes undeniable. Right.
K.Lee Marks: [00:21:17] Right. Wow. There’s so much, you said there let’s get
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:21:20] sorry i went on a little bit of a diatribe
K.Lee Marks: [00:21:22] I’m taking notes. Um, there was one thing you mentioned about this idea of sort of like seeing certain speakers and thought leaders, uh, challenged and seeing how they handle that.
Seeing how people like Joe Rogan are challenged or seeing how the host handles things. It’s almost like role models and, and we lack role models. I think in society, we, especially young people, they lack. Um, powerful, good role models and, and having these conversations, like you’re saying, you get to unravel and unwind a person and understand their blind spots in this point about the blind spot, how, you know, you can become aware of other people’s blind spots.
And that’s a, that’s a really powerful thing to help people grow and learn. And having these conversations publicly, having a thought be put out there and smashed or, or, you know, um, countered and then having another idea come out. It really does push the evolution of the thought forward. And I think that’s how we start to get out of the individual and into the collective, the collective processing of, of like how, how do we think as a human race?
You know, we are all flying through space on this planet and we have to figure out how to unify and how to, uh, co-exist you know, that coexist bumper sticker. I it’s like it’s, we were maxing out the planet in any way. So it’s like either we go to space, but the people who are still on planet earth that we have to get along.
And so learning how to communicate, learning how to listen, learning how to have our blind spots pointed out and how to point out blind spots in ways that people can digest is so important. And that’s one of the reasons why I like these, these kinds of shows. So I’m, you know, when you’re talking about long form, I’m wondering, is there a show that isn’t known that you would recommend like a what’s one of the newer, long form content podcasts that’s coming out. That’s like, hasn’t people just haven’t figured it out.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:23:12] Yeah, I’m trying to think of that because like I’ve, I know exactly what you’re saying. Like I’ve, because that’s one of the biggest pieces of a podcast and that I found so special in that I want to bring to other people was when you find a podcast that’s in that position where you see something special there and it just hasn’t blown up yet.
And you get to watch that, right. Especially if it’s a very vulnerable podcast is where they’re bringing their fans. Along with them. The example I use for this one all the time, and maybe I’ll, I’ll tell this story as trying to think of a good example of one I can think of right now, but flagrant two is a, is a podcast it’s, uh, Andrew Schultz and Aakash sing.
And, uh, they had another guy for a long time, but they’re comedians out of New York city. And, uh, they had this podcast, who’s kind of a basketball podcast. It went through a couple of different iterations. It’s grown over the years, but it was so funny, but it wasn’t huge. Right. But you could see the passion that they had and how much they had an understanding of what those next levels were.
Kind of like my underst, like what I said about Joe Rogan, people not understanding the real power of what he wields and getting too distracted by the shiny carrot. And you could tell that they understood it. And to me, it was like, Oh, these guys are gonna be huge. And, uh, and then I was watching them for maybe six months at that point.
And then it happened, you know, Andrew Schultz, the ringleader of the podcast gets on Joe Rogan. And then to watch that, take them from here to here in, uh, like overnight and then to see. All that shit they’d been talking, get backed up because they’d said, you know, if, you know, once we get on that, once people start to realize what we’re doing here, it’s it’s to the moon.
Right. And they would always say that even before it happened, but then once it happened to watch them backup, all that shit, they talked over these years, over these months of what they’re going to do. And now they’re the number one comedy podcast on Patreon. Wow. They’ve grown exponentially, they’re, uh, still one of the funniest podcasts, outgoing, and, uh, I think Andrew Schultz is going to be one of the best comedians, uh, at the end, when, at the end of, uh, at the end of both of our lives.
And we look back at, you know, who we look at right now with the Dave Chappelle’s and stuff. I think Andrew Schultz is gonna be one of those people. Cause he’s, he is that talented. And I listened to a lot of podcasts and listen to a lot of comedy specifically and watch a lot of standup and he’s got something special.
So that was one where that was something special to me going along that ride with them was really, probably one of the biggest influences behind me starting this podcast and the way they talked about, especially on a Patreon of just letting people in and talking about the forward momentum. And that’s just grinding that if you don’t give up at it and that, you know, it’s not a bad thing to shoot for this shoot for the stars, because one of the things Andrew Schultz always said was, I want to be the goat.
You know, Dave, Chappelle’s the goat of stand up right now, but I’m coming for him. And I want to say that and I want to be accountable to that. And I love that, you know, and that’s something that I took and as like, Oh, that’s not a bad thing to say. You can, you can keep that as a, as a goal and be proud of that.
It doesn’t have to be something to be ashamed of. Like I learned so much from that and it really gave me the, the. The creative, uh, push to S to, you know, stop giving into the cowardice and really start this thing, you know, order the equipment, get on it. Right. So, uh, I do see the power of what you’re saying there.
I’m struggling to think if I know any right now that are, you know, bubbling under the surface. Oh, here’s one, I’m an idiot. So there’s a guy from Alberta, local guy to me. Uh, he’s from Lloydminster, Alberta. His name is Shawn Newman. And, uh, he’s been doing a long form podcast for two years now. Uh, very much in the style of Joe Rogan and myself.
And he just has guys on that interest him. And he’s started to have some real Canadian royalty on there. And he’s had a Don cherry. Who’s a huge hockey guy here, and he’s had a bunch of, uh, NHL players on he’s had some very, very interesting people. And what tells me that he’s going to be successful in that he’s just mumbling under the surface is the same thing that we talked about when we chatted the first time is that passion for it.
You can tell that he genuinely loves it. And even of course, he wants it to be successful and he wants it to make money and he wants it. But more than that, even if it didn’t, he would still do it because he loves it and he loves the, the medium. And that is, to me, what is so much more than any talent, any capability, any, any IQ?
Because I think he listened to a lot of people that are really smart, start a podcast, but they’re not. They’re not genuine and they don’t bring it forward and they don’t care about the medium and, and, and it shows right, but somebody like Sean or a, there’s another, a couple of girls that just started pockets.
I think they have like eight or nine episodes out. And, you know, it’s, it’s definitely raw and you can see the, the roughness around the edges, but that I messaged them after their first episode. So, cause I listened, I probably listened to 5,000 podcasts at least, you know, like just trying to think back of all the Joe Rogan’s and all the Weinstein brothers and all of them.
And you could tell from episode one that if they continue with it, because anything can fail, it’s easy to give up on a podcast, but if they don’t, they have something there and it’s going to be something. So that was the first thing I did was reach out to him and tell them that like, Hey, you have something here.
Like if you guys are serious about this, if you care about it, I mean, probably sounds pretty bad coming from, from me, you know? Like just what do I know? But just if for what it’s worth for the, what I think I know about podcasts, I think there’s gonna be something special and it’s so fun to watch it. Now.
I’m just, you know, waiting on baited breath every Sunday for that episode to come out, because I want to see what they’re doing. I want to see how much they’ve grown and how much they’ve taken those steps. Because usually the first, you know, 10 to 50 podcasts are always learning lessons and you’re always getting better and you can hear it.
So, yeah, I dunno. I don’t know if I have any, uh, other than that, but definitely Shawn Newman podcasts. He’s a, he’s one of those guys. I mean, maybe he’s a little bit, uh, broken through already because he’s definitely already on that track and he’s already doing. Expressively well, but I think he’s got a lot further to go.
And I think his ceiling is nowhere near hit yet.
K.Lee Marks: [00:28:49] It’s so fascinating to hear about this. And it’s like, you get to watch the evolution of a show or you get to hear and watch depending on where you’re consuming it, but you get to, you get to accompany them as they go. If you listen to episode one, you lifts in episode 200 or beyond.
And it’s, you know, w we live in this incredible time where so many kinds of humans experiences have been cataloged and are available. And there’s such a wealth of information out now. And, um, this platform is easier than ever, like you said, you know, going back to this idea that people think that it’s saturated, but there’s millions of YouTube channels and there’s, there’s, um, only 800.
There’s like maybe a million podcasts. It’s such a much lower number. And so this is a special time. And I think, you know, you, having consumed 5,000 podcasts. You have an eye, you have an ear for things that work and things that don’t work and, you know, it’s out there. And so I think that’s really cool that you’re able to spot different shows before they take off.
What do you think it is that if you had to distill it into concepts, what do you think it is that makes a show like that? Just, you know, like, uh, transmissible or, or viral, or just so engaging? What is it, what are the elements?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:30:09] I think to me it’s more, more than anything is just vulnerability. Right. It’s uh, it’s honestly, of putting out who you are, right.
If that’s your show, right? Like if you’re, if you’re writing may be a, uh, a murder mystery podcast where it’s more of a, a host the host one. Right. But I think, and when you’re talking about long form and what brings people back and what makes people fall in love with that person? It doesn’t matter who they’re talking to.
They want to hear from that person, is that genuine vulnerability, right? The highs and the lows. And I think that is what, uh, as much as it’s fun to watch somebody’s journey a go all the way upwards, along the way, you’re going to see a lot of peaks and valleys and you get to see, right, like going back to,Flagrant Two with Andrew Schultz, you know, watching him go to Netflix and then go to comedy central and get turned down time after time for his special, you know, going through that process and listening to it on the podcast of what it was, but seeing that he’s never giving up.
And then he goes, well, I’m just going to start putting out all these, uh, clips on YouTube. Right. And he really started that whole movement for comedians start putting their stand up on YouTube. And he blew up from it. This is all before Joe Rogan. This was kind of the buildup to it. But to see him just build it brick by brick on his own of just every week he did.
I think it was for over a year, he put out a standup clip every week, just grind, grind, grind, and his, you could see the audience grow and grow and grow and just to see the work put in, but you got to see those dark moments, but then. He hits a point, like getting in Joe Rogan was the first big one.
That was the, you know, they had a special Patreon on podcast. They think until the fans like, Hey, this is what about, cause they’d recognize what that was and what a shift that was going to be after the fact. But then something like them getting, uh, his just Andrew Schultz just did a Netflix special called Schultz, saves America about COVID, uh, and everything.
And it’s just, it’s, it’s a stand-up comedy, but with a new format, a heat, he, he tapped into this whole, this whole new thing. It’s, it’s like a joke per three seconds. You have to rewatch. You have to rewind just to catch all the jokes. It’s got visual gags. It’s got, it’s amazing. It’s it’s mind blowing. And to watch him do that and to see all the struggle that led up to that and all the tears that were falling in everything, it’s just such an experience.
It feels like you’re taking it with them. Right. And then as well, they do such a good job. And this is something that I want to mirror with my own podcasts of making sure at big moments like that, of that time to talk to their fans and say like, Hey, this is what we talked about. This, we built this up, this is happening.
This is everybody’s win. Right. And they really focus in on that. And that’s really the spirit of what these podcasts are and what that is. Right. Like, and I think that was started a lot by Joe Rogan of, you know, he always says, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats, and you have to put your hand back, you have to help people along.
That’s what really matters in this. And to see it permeate throughout almost all of podcasting, it’s a really special, medium to be a part of because, uh, you know, like you said, that co-exists, they’re like everybody needs that and. It’s a hard thing to do, but when you can find it, even in one small area, like, like a podcast or like a, any industry, if you can find it there, it’s a really special thing to be.
And it really draws people in and makes them want to stay for the long run. So I would say it’s that transparency and that vulnerability, right? Showing the low, showing the highs and just being honest with people. I think it’s hard to people put on a front all the time, but it’s usually only interactions of five minutes, 10 minutes.
They put on that front and then it falls off and they go in their office and they’re themselves. And I think if you’re going to do a podcast for three hours, if you want to have any sort of consistency, you’ll crumble, if you try and have a mask on for three hours after three hours after three hours and you just you’re forced to be yourself.
And when you are yourself, people will learn that. And they’ll, and they’ll. Tap into those. And you allow these billions of people around the world. There’s so many people like you, that that might understand you. Um, and just opening yourself up and bring that vulnerability. It’s like putting up an antenna to find people like you and letting them come to you instead of just let’s find the most bland, everyone’s going to love it thing to put out to the masses and then try and cast a huge net.
Let’s just have a tiny fishing rod with this one kind of bait that only brings in this special kind of person. And that’s the only people you want to listen. You know, you want those quality listeners, not the, you know, Costco bulk bulk buy listeners that don’t really care about what you’re trying to do.
Don’t care about your vision. They don’t really truly believe in who you are and when you can do that, when you can, but that’s a scary thing to do too, because that’s a recipe for a slow burn, right? Like not casting that wide net, just relying on trusting the process and doing things right. And just concentrating on making it as best as it can be.
And hoping that if you do that, things will come. You know, if you build it, they will come. And that’s kind of the process that I’ve been in my podcast as like I’ve said, I haven’t really put too much into, you know, blasting it out there, but I’m really proud of the episodes that I, that I have done. I think the content itself is something that can really be proud of as I work on it.
And just having those 5,000 episodes of podcasts in my brain, knowing that each and every one of them, they all talked about. If they could do anything different, they would just start earlier because it just comes with time. You know, every single person from Joe Rogan to the Weinstein brothers, to Lex Friedman, they all say the same thing.
Just start because you’re going to get better at it. You’re going to fail. You’re going to stumble. You’re going to fall on your face, but then you’re going to learn and you’re going to get better. So I think having that gives me a lot more, um, calm that this is going to work out. And even though, you know, the, the downloads, aren’t skyrocketing, all this stuff, you’re on the right path.
You’re doing the right thing. Just stick with it. And eventually you’ll see it. I think for a lot of people, if you don’t have that beaten into you or you don’t have a lot of faith in that, in that process, that’s really hard. I think that’s why you see such catastrophic failure, levels of podcasts, right?
Like the average podcast, I think they said last three months and that’s, you know, maybe being generous on it. And I think that makes a lot of sense to me because if you don’t have that, you’re going to feel like you’re being a failure and you’re gonna feel like you’re not doing the right things, even though a lot of the time you are.
It’s just, uh, it’s funny that so many things in life come down to faith and how, uh, and you know, that word is just so powerful. And so you can use it in so many different places. It’s so flexible, but so much of it comes down to that and you just have to have faith in it and you have to have faith in the medium that it does have that power or that we think it does.
And that eventually if you hold it to that esteem steam and you, and you do it right, and you don’t sell out. And I don’t even like that word because I think people use it too much, but you don’t, you just hold faith to that, to that, to that process and what it is. And eventually you will see results. And I think that’s, uh, that’s kinda where I’m at.
That’s where I’m at. And that’s what I would recommend to anybody that’s getting into it. Right.
K.Lee Marks: [00:36:27] There’s. In the ancient scriptures of India, they talk about faith, which is called shraddha Sanskrit for faith shraddha,, and everything is faith. Everything is shraddha, like almost the constitution of the, of the, of the universe or the, the w the way that the conscious beings interact with the universe it is faith.
We believe that the atoms are here. We have faith that things, the laws of physics, we have faith. And it’s actually the first requirement on the path of the soul’s evolution to transcendence is to have this faith that there is something worth seeking, right? There’s something worth, um, pursuing and growing towards.
And then that it is attainable, right? That’s sort of faith, there’s something we’re seeking and there’s, and it’s attainable. And so I think kind of what I’m hearing from you is that the consensus reality among the successful platform builders and podcasters is they wish they’d started sooner. And that commitment and focus and dedication to, to being vulnerable and being their true self has been really, you know, what has skyrocketed them?
Obviously, they got support on different platforms and stuff, but it’s really the audience, right. That got them the chance to be on Joe Rogan. Right. It’s those people. So I love that. How, how connected the audiences to the success? So something I realized when I was touring, I, I was in a band and I toured around.
And I would see a lot of shows and I finally got to open up for my heroes, uh, this band called beats antique. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of them, but they’re a really amazing electronic fusion band called beats antique. And they mix like belly dance and electronic stuff and cool. I love them. I never, ever in a million years thought I could open for them.
And we got to go on a mini little Colorado tour with them and it’s just like, the audience is the power and the energy, anyone on stage without the audience. It’s just not, they it’s like, it’s actually the audience that makes the artist. And so it’s, so it’s so impactful to have that line with your listeners.
And I’m wondering like, what are some like cool things that have come about from your audience, from your show? Could you talk a little bit about what you’ve witnessed or, or, or any exchanges that stick out
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:38:50] For sure i can, and I’ll definitely answer that, but something that you, you had just said, I just wanted to add on to it.
I think it is, it’s so much the power is with the audience, but I think so many people misunderstand that they think that it’s just about being seen. And as long as you get the eyes, it’s about numbers, right? It’s not about it’s quantity over quantity, over quality. And I think you see this in standup so much is they see somebody like a Joe Rogan have that Mencia issue where it goes viral.
And then he kind of blows up from there. Bill Burr had that rant and Philadelphia goes viral. He blows up from there. And then now you see, as the internet, you know, going viral, isn’t as difficult as it used to be. But now you see these comedians that are so focused on going viral, that once they do, they don’t have the same reaction, they can’t figure out well, you know, that, that video I got in this fight with this guy, you know, I heckler and it got 10 million views.
Like, how am I not famous? And it’s about having something. When something puts you on the grand scale, what do you have to show to them? Right. Okay. Now they Google bill Burr and they’d go back and say, this is one of the funniest people of all time. However, not heard of this guy. And there’s something for them to go back to.
I feel like that is what Andrew Schultz preach so much before getting on Joe Rogan was, you know, once when I finally do. I’m going to have so much for people to go back to. They’re gonna have so much to enjoy that it’s really going to make it make an impact. And I feel like that’s where people get so caught up in the virality of it, that they lose sight of what the core being.
And if you just work on this, that will happen. You’ll, you’ll, you’ll get lucky or, or you’ll create your own luck and something will happen. But the actual base of what your product is, has to be strong. I feel like that is something that even when people understand that the power is with the audience, they misunderstand how that works and, and, and the medium through which you need to connect.
Um, but for myself, going through this and finding some of the cool moments, you talk about getting tour with your heroes. Uh, one of the big ones that me and you chatted about on my podcast was having to, uh, have the opportunity, sorry to have on two of my favorite authors of all time, uh, the Kollin brothers, um, it was kind of one of those things where I have, I have a spreadsheet that has, you know, all my hopes and dreams of guests that go on there from, you know, moonshot guys like Lex Friedman and Joe Rogan to the kind of medium guys to, you know, things that are more attainable.
And I had it all kind of cordoned off like that, but I wasn’t really taking any big swings at some of the bigger guys. Right. And I had done my first episode in a real studio with cameras and good mics and a producer. And I was riding such a high that week after doing that and feeling, you know, a piece of what this could be, you know, I’d always seen it in my head, but to actually live it for a day, it gave me a lot of, uh, you know, faith in myself to push the limits a little bit.
So I just reached out on a whim. I found one of the brothers on Facebook, um, Messaged him and just said like, Hey, can I send you an email just to, I love to guys as books, I love your work. Can I send you an email just to kind of say who I am and see if it would be up your alley and said, sure. So I got a little flustered.
I wrote up this big, long email and I sent it off to them and they said, we loved you, you know? And they were the nicest guys and, and, and, you know, and then I was so nervous and I, I told him, I said, can I have, uh, a week or two to reread through your, uh, 300? Yeah. And we got a new one out. So I was going through that.
I’m just, you know, coming up with all these questions and I’m just getting nervous and nervous and nervous. And then we finally hop on and, uh, I don’t know what I was so nervous about. They’re both just the most genuine guys. They, they were really appreciated the depth of my love for their work and what I spent on it.
And it was one of the most special experiences I got to have. It was one of those things that I had. It was the reason I started this podcast was to have those experience with these people. But in my head, I was so, you know, after hearing from all these parties, you know, it takes a long grind. It’s a long grind.
Don’t get ahead of yourself. I thought, you know, five, 10 years then I’ll be interviewing people like the Kollin brothers. And I won’t get a shot of that, you know, in the first six months. But to take that swing and have it connect and have an awesome podcast where I don’t think people. Well fully realize the power of what that podcast was for me, but me and maybe my sister, because she loves those books too, and knew how special they were to me.
But, um, and I hope they level you up. Did it just take you like once you crush that goal, was it just like, Oh, now I can do it of anything. Yeah. That definitely. And it definitely had me reach out to a lot more big guys and get no response, you know? And that’s part of that. That’s part of the game, right?
That’s, that’s what it is. So I definitely leveled up. It gave me a lot more confidence. It gave me a lot more, uh, yeah, I’d say confidence is probably just the, the biggest thing, you know, I’m extremely confident in what I can do. I just always think, because I feel like almost I’m a little bit gated by some of the narratives that I heard for so many years on these podcasts about what a traditional path of podcasting looks like.
But something that comes to me a lot of the time is, you know, this traditional path of what it looks like for Joe Rogan when starting in 2009, there was no podcast. So now there’s no roadmap for a person starting a podcast in 2020 that has 5,000 podcasts of listening experience knows exactly what they like.
Right. We’ve never seen that. So you can’t be too stuck to this narrative of what it’s going to take, because maybe the world’s never seen somebody without much knowledge of what podcasts are starting their own podcast and taking the best of what they like to Joe Rogan and the Weinstein brothers and Lex Friedman’s and Pete Holmes and Duncan Trussell and all these and everybody on this shirt right now that, that goes around the circle of all these podcasts that I love, you know, it’s it.
That’s what gets me excited is I don’t know that that could be very far from the truth. I could be, you know, one of the worst podcasts, I don’t know, but I’m enjoying it and that’s all it matters. And I think that’s important to not assume too much of yourself and throw away those narratives of what you’d heard and to not take those lessons for what they are.
But I think also I detriment myself sometimes by sticking too closely to those and not taking those big swings, because technically I’m not at that time yet. I’m not at the size where I should be taking those swings. Right. And I think it’s about finding that balance of that tight rope and, you know, not falling off to one side or the other, but I think that’s most things in life is some form of that or another
K.Lee Marks: [00:44:39] that’s really good feedback and advice for, for people to not, not forced themselves.
We don’t have to force ourselves to walk the exact same path and assume that everything will be the same and no one, no one is starting these things right now. So we’re, you know, we’re sort of the pioneers of this time. We gotta, we gotta work with that. That’s really interesting. And I love that you got to interview your, the, the authors that really love their book.
That’s just such a fantastic thing. And one of the reasons why I love this medium and this platform is that power of being able to connect with these incredible people that previously. We thought they’d be unreachable or unavailable, but now everything is, um, uh, at a click it click away. And it’s odd because COVID seemed to have, um, kind of anyone who wasn’t online just got pushed online.
So if there was ever a time to start your platform, it feels like now is the time. And this may be the last phase of, of this platform being fresh, like this still, you know, like, like you said, that common misconception, Oh, there’s so many podcasts. And it’s like, well, there’s really not that many. And the amount, uh, that it can do for your life, the amount that it can transform your network and your friend circle in a short, relatively short period of time is pretty astounding.
Have you noticed that, have you, has, has your network changed? Has your, has your community changed as a result of these?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:46:09] Yeah, it, uh, it definitely has an a and I think that’s something that, uh, as the process started, uh, I was, you know, very blown away by how weird things got. It was almost immediately, as soon as I made that decision in my head to start the podcast, little things just fell into place.
People I hadn’t connected with in a long time reconnected with, uh, you know, uh, having, having a podcast you’re supposed to be lined up, then it gets pushed two weeks. And then in that two weeks, something crazy happens that makes the podcast so much better once it happens. And it just seemed like the universe had this plan.
And as soon as I stopped being afraid and dove into it and gotten that forward momentum things just kind of started to work out. And I found that that was one of the coolest things and you know, a little bit scary. It’s just, it’s maybe scary. Isn’t the right word. It’s uh, It’s intimidating because I think that a lot of people would realize that there’s a lot more there for them, if they would push out and grab, you know, if, if, if they push themselves more things can come from the real capability of what’s inside of every body is so much more, but once you get a taste of it, it does two things.
It, it shows, you know, new levels for you to get to, but it also kind of reorients everything you’ve done until that point, because you kind of thought your, your capability was here, you know, uh, you know, this size and really once you find something that kind of lets you know that, Oh, no, it’s much bigger than I thought.
It’s kind of an intimidating thought because then, you know, you thought that you were doing pretty good at where you are in life and all the things you had accomplished, but, and you think, well maybe if I applied myself more, what could I have done? Right. So it’s kind of a, a double-edged sword. And again, you just can’t think about it too deeply and just, you know, enjoy the parts that you enjoy.
And, uh, in that, but I think maybe more than what my circle has changed so far, I think that’s one of the things that is one of my goals for the future, because I think more, so one of the questions I get along with the podcast is everyone, do you make money at it? Right. Like I get that question all the time and I tell people not right now, like, and that’s, but that’s also not one of my goals.
I think I very easily could make money with it. Not a lot of money, but just a little bit just with my connections and you know, in the business world, I could, I could make it happen, but that’s not what I’m trying to do. So then people go, well, then you don’t care about the numbers. And it’s like, I’m trying not to care about the numbers, but I do.
But for the reason that I want my network expanded every week, that goes by that I listened to Lex Friedman have these just amazing minds on his podcast. And I’m just so jealous because it was like, if, if it was up to me and I could snap my fingers, I had my magic wand. I would just build a studio right.
Beside wherever Lex Freeman is. And just take his guests one at a time, you know, Oh, you’re finished with his cake. Come on in with me. I’m going to ask you some questions, right. Because, but essentially I can build that. Right. If I stick with the goals that I’m doing right now, I build organically and I build an audience that also has that passion for these smart people and wants to learn from them.
Like I do, I can build that. W where, you know, they’re calling me wanting to come on my show because they know that that is where my interests lie and that sort of thing. So I feel like more so than money or fame or any of those things. I’m almost building up. What I selfishly want is access. I want to have moments like I had when I was interviewing the colon brothers, or even before interviewing the Kollin brothers of just sitting on 50 minutes while you’re troubleshooting the, the sound issues and stuff.
And just figuring that out of just being able to talk to them how their day was, it was just such a surreal experience. And I think that’s going to happen time and time again, as you hit these new, uh, benchmarks of, of these cool people to have on, but if nothing else comes to this, but that it’s so worth it to me, right?
All the hours, all the headaches, all the, uh, you know, sitting there smacking your head, trying to type out what your description is going to be for the episode too. And then also knowing that eventually. I’m going to get help with this podcast and I can find the right people. And that was one of the biggest things we talked about when we first talked was I’m very picky about who I allow into this because I do care so much about it.
And I have such a vision for it that I don’t want somebody that’s just coming in to try and make a buck and isn’t gonna, you know, buy in and really see it the way I see it. So that’s been something that I’ve been very cautious of, but now it gives me faith that, uh, in the future, there’s gonna be more of me enjoying those moments, like the Kollin brothers and less of the, you know, sitting there recording your intro for the 10th time, because you hate everything.
That’s coming out your mouth that morning and you can’t just say it how you want to say it. Right. So I think that’s what gets me. That’s what gets me up in the morning. And that’s what my motivation more than all the other factors. I don’t think I’ve ever said that that’s succinctly out loud before, but I think that is something that, uh, it always feels good to say something out loud that you’ve never said before that is impactful to you.
And I think that is, uh, another lesson that people can take forward is just when there’s something like that, getting it out on a podcast is perfect because now you’re accountable to it. But even just saying it to your, to your, to your girlfriend or to your wife or to your sister, whatever that is, even to yourself, just in an empty room, saying things aloud has a lot of power to it.
And I think that is, uh, I think I forgot what the question was once I got into that, but I’ll maybe I’ll just end it there. That’s another lesson for people to take.
K.Lee Marks: [00:50:59] I love it. If you, if, uh, my little brother just shared this cool thing with me, if you speak what you see, you will see what you say. Mm, for sure.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:51:12] I believe that wholeheartedly, wholeheartedly.
K.Lee Marks: [00:51:14] You know, um, we were actually watching, uh, Lars, your episode of the Lars he was going through and we were, we’re pulling out time code. And, um, I love, I love this part. He’s talking about. He’s like, don’t thank me. I, this is the most, uh, selfish act, ever endeavor ever. I love comedy.
I love being on stage. You don’t have to thank me. I get to come here and be on stage, make you laugh. You know, like most I’ll do for you is like change jokes that don’t make you laugh. You know, this is totally selfish endeavor. And, um, I think that it’s, it really is a very fun, um, inspiring just connective experience to get on the, on the zoom with all these different people and, and learn more about them and then get to share that with the audience and then get to hear about how that worked for them.
And it, you know, personally for me, it sparked so many conversations and, uh, you know, just feeling that ripple effect of how these conversations can kind of help people and stuff is what keeps me going and, and feeling so inspired.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [00:52:20] And then the people that reach out to you and let you know that when they really enjoyed it and they really connected with something or something you said really spoke to them, those moments are amazing.
Right. And just to, uh, I feel like something that was also a big piece of my, my struggle going on. Uh, for a long time in the time between I, where I found podcasts. And when I started my own was a lot of loneliness because it feels like I found this thing that I love so much. And it’s a lot to ask of somebody like, Hey, you should listen to this podcast, right?
Like that is a big ask and how it’s a lot of times a lot of investment. And I think if they knew what was at the end of that rainbow of what they could get out of what type of, um, you know, self-growth knowledge, uh, all these things that they could get from it. But it’s hard to explain that to somebody.
And I think that for probably four or five years, it was me taking all this knowledge, growing myself, learning about myself through podcasts and not having anybody to share it with. And it felt like there’s, the world was crazy, but there was these small pockets of, of, uh, of sanity of there with these P these podcasters, right.
And the people that they would have on. And, uh, and I think that’s something that is something that I was probably the most jealous of was the type of fans that these people would create. Right. That’s people that it wasn’t a fan because they liked the words that you said, if somebody else’s right, if you’re an actor, somebody is a fan of the work you do.
It’s obviously the, the talent of what you bring to that role, but they don’t really know who you are. They don’t love you for, for you. And I think maybe mean you talked about is the difference when Matthew McConaughey just went on this latest swing of podcasts and really opened up and was very vulnerable with people about what he, uh, About who he is at a very deep level.
And that was such a different aspect to what anybody had really seen before. And now, you know, I would go see, see his movies, but you know, only if it was a movie that kind of caught me. But now that I know who he is, and I understand his story, like I’m, I’m a, I’m a genuine fan. Um, Bert Kreischer, a comedian, he, uh, was one of the first guys on the first wave of podcasts after Joe he’s one of Joe’s buddies and he’s become extremely, he’s made it extremely lucrative.
He’s one of those guys that will, you know, make money off of anything and he’s really gone with it. But one of the biggest things I got from him was his definition of a fan, right? Like he doesn’t, he said after show a guy came up to him almost with tears in his eyes one time and said like, Burt, you don’t understand.
I’m a fan of yours and yeah. Yeah, no, great. No, like I’m a fan of yours when you succeed. I succeed when you’re happy, I’m happy. I feel through you. That’s what type of fans this medium can bring. And to have that I would take a hundred of those types of fans over any millions of millions of people that don’t really know yet.
I don’t really connect on that. You know, I feel like you see so many people that show this side of fame that is, you know, annoying and, you know, a detriment to your, to your life. Kind of like what Matthew McConaughey was talking about on, uh, I think it was Jordan Peterson’s podcast actually about kind of the negative effects of fame, but then you see people that have.
Grown their fame from purely podcasting. And they say, it’s never a bad experience. Anybody that connects with you, like anybody that comes up with you on the street really has a deep connection with you and understands that. And they said that can also be weird because people, you know, come up to you and know that your dog died and that you broke up your girlfriend, all of these things, they know you very intimately, but they said the swing.
And especially those people like Joe Rogan that can tell almost immediately if someone coming up to them as a fan of his standup or his podcast or MMA, right. It’s very different, but different experience. But they always talk about those people that connect with you through the podcast. It’s a different type of connection.
And a lot of those negative things that come with fame, aren’t apparent there, right? Obviously that’s a massive generalization and there’s going to be a, there’s going to be a out loud outliers and exceptions to that. But I think overall, there’s a lesson in there of what this is. I think so many people, there’s only been one way to garner fame before.
And I feel like we’ve never seen this type of fame. You can never become famous by being this intimate and on that level. So I think this is kind of something that everybody’s finding out. Everyone is learning on the fly. Nobody really knows what it’s going to look like down the road. Right. Joe Rogan doesn’t know what this is gonna look like when he’s 70, right?
Like he’s, he’s just as much a slave to the unknown as the rest of us are. But I think if I was going to bet on something, that’s what I would bet on. I think there’s a lesson in there. I think there’s a truth to that. That when you explain it to people that understand podcasts, I may not have articulated it.
Good enough for everybody to understand, but I think people that. Or around the space will understand what I’m talking about with that. And I think that is something, again, it’s hard to explain to people, but I think it’s powerful. And I think that’s just another thing to add on to that scale of what makes podcasts special is that thing.
Right. And I think over the conversation, we’ll probably keep adding coins to that because the question you asked me at the start is an unanswerable question. There’s never enough things to add to that, to fully encompass what makes long-form pod cast so special? Right. So I think that’ll be something that throughout this conversation, we’ll probably add more and more to that list.
And I think, again, I already forgot what question you asked me because I went so long oh God.
K.Lee Marks: [00:57:16] No, it’s it. You know, it, it makes me think just about the, the complexity of trying to convey a message to another person and how hard that is. And I’m reading this book. Do I have it around here anywhere here?
I’m going to do a cameo for this book. i’m so into hold on
it’s, it’s reversed, but it’s called thanks for the feedback. And it is written by Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen and they’re of the Harvard negotiation project. So they’re both, they’re both speakers at Harvard school of law, and it’s all about brain, the brain, how to accept feedback, how to give feedback, why it’s so hard to accept feedback in it.
And it really breaks down like why we get so triggered when people tell us something different kinds of feedback and the. The truth of the matter is, and I think we, we see this probably in, in romantic partnerships a lot too. I see it is the breakdown of communication and just how I can think, I understand what my partner is saying to me.
But if she doesn’t understand, if she doesn’t feel like I understand what she’s saying to me, then I don’t understand what she’s saying to her. And, and it’s, it’s really has taught me that the, the not everything can be discussed in one conversation. Not everything can be discussed in 10 minutes. Not everything can be discussed before you’ve eaten lunch.
You know, there’s, there’s so many things that go into it. We really are. Um, I think Terence McKenna was like, we’re like making funny mouth sounds that wiggles air, right? Yeah. And it’s, you know, there’s some 50, 50 chance in the air that, that things don’t make it. Um, and we are, we bring our biases and our filters to the conversation and, and all these words are really labels their labels for these mind pictures that we, you know,
I say, um, Hey, you, you did this thing that was annoying me. Right. And our, you know, you were, you were harsh and harsh is a huge movie in my mind with all these things of like of facial recognition and tone and circumstance and my mood and it, and it calls this whole thing up. But, but all you hear is harsh. And you have your own movie of what that means.
And so we’re running these different movies of these labels and the long form conversation, having deep, long conversations and really picking apart, um, content is partly a way to ensure that we’re, we’re, we’re fully exploring a conversation point or a topic or someone’s work like what you said that they’re put on a five minute or four minute news thing, and they don’t have any time.
They have to condense things down. And you know, when you do that, you lose some resolution, you lose some depth. And so this format is, is for that. And one really fascinating thing that I noticed about myself on this interview is my tendency to take a two, to, to take the conversation in a direction by asking a question, rather than just saying something interesting, and then letting it sit there and letting you say something interesting.
I was finding myself asking a question because I’m used to trying to cram my interviews into a shorter time and write this. I can simply say something and then leave a silence.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:00:32] And I think that is one of the things that I love about the longer form and what I do just to be open with your listeners.
When I have somebody on my podcast, they always ask, well, it seems kind of, long, I say, we’ll do as long as you want, right. If you want to do half an hour, half an hour is fine by me. I think there’s a lot of power in the longer episodes. And if you want to, but that’s a lot to handle, so no, no, uh, no worries.
And also we can play it by ear, right? So if you want to do an hour and then check in two hours and check, and then if you’re loving it and you can go all the way to three, if you want. Um, but I do think that is exactly the reason. I think you already nailed it on the head is conveying intent is tough. We were as animals.
We had a lot of tools for conveying intent, and then we got words or yeah, and then we got writing and it’s these new takes on conveying intent. And then we hit the internet and it took words and speech and put them into these, all these new areas and all these new mediums to bring that across. And I feel like we were doing that under the expectation that a words are a good way of conveying intent.
And I feel like because that’s all we have, people are under, they walked through the world with the understanding. That words are a good way of conveying intent, but just like we discussed, if you take that, you know, pass the first layer, it’s really not. There’s really, you know, a lot of confusion and a lot of things that can come of, uh, of, uh, Yes miscommunications, even if you’re saying the exact same thing and one of the big eye-opener for me, I remember as a kid finding out can’t remember what language it was, but hearing a word.
I think it was German because very German family, German name, but there was a German word that we didn’t have an English. And they told me what the word meant. And I said, there’s not a word. Like, you know, I remember having that disconnect of there’s no word in English for that term. And just, that was so mind blowing to me to understand.
And now it’s one of my favorite things of hearing, you know, Russian people tell you a Russian word that just English language or German, or there’s all these different words, and we don’t even have a word for them. It’s just, it’s so much of like this, a bootstrapped way of conveying intent that we don’t realize is so shoddy.
And I feel like that would be something where it’d be upleveling of society as a whole, if we could all walk through the world with an understanding of just how poorly words are as a medium for conveying intent. And I feel like that would, uh, kind of level it up. And then what confuses that even further is another thing that you kind of mentioned without, you know, throwing the scientific terms at, but on one of the Lex Friedman’s podcast, he had an AI, uh, uh, researcher on and he was talking about some of the issues with developing, uh, um, artificial intelligence.
And he said, we have these neural nets where we give them a set of parameters. We give them a lot of information and just let them learn. Right. And they, they figure things out and they’re really good at figuring things out, right? Like they have beat grand masters at chess at go at all these games.
And they’re really good when there’s strict parameters. And he was trying to explain to Lex. Where are they struggle? And, uh, he was giving this example of a experiential learning versus a camera with the other word he used for it. Uh, I’m just going to call it a vocabulary learning, right? It’s kind of a difference between, you know, reading a sentence on a, Oh, I don’t wanna use a spicy topic like this, but, uh, you know, reading, reading a paragraph on racism and how it affects you.
Right? And that’s one thing, and you could read all these words, you could read a whole book on it, or you could have a two-minute conversation with somebody that tells them, tells you their story from their perspective, and you will experientially understand it better, right? There’s this big difference between experiential, which is something with our brains that we still don’t understand all these researchers doing the best work.
They don’t understand how humans do this, but we can come. We can build a picture in our brain to solve problems that is so abstract to a level that we can’t teach to a computer. And I think that experiential learning versus verbal learning where so many people go through where you can sit on a whole class, it’s on this one subject and not get it.
And then you can have a five minute conversation with someone and they’ll bring you forward to that. I feel like that is what is so, and I feel like there’s also this whole. Everybody gets that experiential knowledge through different ways. Some people it’s conversation. Some people get that a lot from books.
It’s, everybody’s a different learner. I mean, we’ve known that there’s been different learning styles since the fifties, right? Audible learner, are you a visual learner? Right? Those types of things. But I think for so long, you were kind of pigeonholed into either being lectured to, or reading it in a book.
And now YouTube and podcasts has changed so much now, you know, long form is this new way for people to get information. And it’s so intimate that it’s hard not to experientially understand it because that’s what the two people in that podcast are trying to do. They’re trying to convey that experiential knowledge to that person in different ways.
And they’ll take multiple swings at it. They won’t just try it once. Like you said, you, you S you see this in a. In relationships a lot, but I see it and work. A lot of you tell an employee something, they say they understand, and you can kind of see that glimmer in their eye or how they repeat something back to you that they don’t understand it.
And you have to ask clarifying questions, which is something that I struggle so much with zoom. Is that a missing that so much when we have a big meeting and I think everybody’s got this topic and we’re ready to go, and then we leave and it’s that body language. There’s certain things that you can do and, and feel when people don’t understand something, you need to give another, you need to find a new metaphor or switch some words around a bit, take a new tactic, completely retry to make sure that they got that understanding. You might be explaining the same topic, but it just that slightly different way.
K.Lee Marks: [01:05:54] In fact, why don’t we demonstrate with a little illustration of that?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:05:58] Oh, beautiful. I’m all in. Let’s go.
K.Lee Marks: [01:06:00] Okay. Let’s see if you’re listening to this. This is cue for you to check out the YouTube version. Um, so actually I’m going to keep it on gallery.
Okay. So it’s almost like the first time that I try and say something to you. All that you get from me is like, not that big, it’s just a blank page. Right. And it’s not really until I, I check, I check with you. Did that make sense? You check with me. Am I getting it right? That then. We, we start to have a better idea of what the person’s trying to say, but it’s still, it’s just like an outline of what they’re trying to say.
It’s not really the full, it’s not the full thing. So really what it takes to fully understand what the other person’s trying to say is presence. You have to really be present and attuned to what the person is saying and try and understand what it’s like to be in their shoes. And that’s why long form podcast content brightens our day and is so essential in getting messages across.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:07:03] Oh man. And, and, and the symbolism of going from blood from black and white to a little bit of gray and a little bit of color is so apt for what podcasts do compared to all those other mediums. That’s just a perfect way to do it. That’s, uh, that’s all awesome.
K.Lee Marks: [01:07:14] I love what you’re. I love what you’re saying though, about, about different kinds of learners and what you’re experiencing with your company and how there’s this, there’s this dimension lacking from zoom and, and for people to anchor in.
And by the way, like, do you take notes while you listen to podcasts? Because you, you seem to have photographic memory.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:07:32] I don’t
K.Lee Marks: [01:07:32] whatever the audio version of that is
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:07:34] Yeah it’s, uh, That that’s what everybody thinks. And that’s what everybody’s asked me, which is a funny experience to go through. Everyone goes, Aw, man.
Like, I can’t believe like how intelligent you are. Something, which is an odd thing to say to someone to say to you, especially me being my goofy itself where I’m like, Oh, if you only knew, right, I have a video, my girlfriend has a video on her phone of her walking in here to see what’s going on. Cause I was clicking like a chicken.
Like I’m a weird dude. Right? Intelligence maybe. But like, I think there’s some better words you could use to describe me. Or the other thing they say is he have such a good memory and I’m like, I have the worst memory. It’s just that I’ve listened. I’ve listened to so many podcasts that there’s these little dribs and drabs of each one that I pulled forward that makes it look like I have this crazy memory to go back to all of them.
But really it’s just a, it’s just a volume thing. Like since I graduated university, I’ve listened to, you know, 10 to 20 podcasts a week since then, like
K.Lee Marks: [01:08:25] how did you get into it? What was it like first show that made you actually be like, wait a minute. I like this.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:08:30] So I was, uh, I’d come back from, uh, from university.
I moved back to my hometown slave Lake Alberta. Right. Which is a, if you know where Edmonton Alberta is, which is the them the most Northern city with the professional, uh, sports team, right. The Edmonton Oilers wearing my hat right there. Uh, just to tell you how North that is, and then you drive another, you know, 200 miles North of that.
And that’s where I grew up. So I went to school in Edmonton, uh, did my four years at a university. It was a very eye-opening experience coming from a very small town to city life. Um, really broaden horizons in that and then going back, and it was something I really struggled with because, um, the types of conversations, aren’t the same, the type of, uh, uh, fun you have, isn’t the same.
And it was, I was lacking a lot of that and I was going back to work and I was doing a lot of Excel projects. I was doing. Uh, I was, uh, I think it was going over a, uh, a new sales, uh, sheet for, for our salesman, just to type in all the different numbers for our fuel to do all the math for them. But it was a very, very tedious project.
I’m just typing data entry, data entry, data entry. Right. And I was thinking, well, I’ve heard about these podcasts things. And you know, I’m a pretty nerdy guy. Let’s look up nerd podcast. So I look up nerd podcast, what comes up first Nerdist, which I didn’t know what that was at the time, but it was Chris Hardwick, right.
A comedian. And I didn’t even always come here. I thought he was, I thought this was going to be a nerd podcast, but that was just nerdous was just the name. They chose. It wasn’t really all that nerdy really. He’s a comedian and I, the first a hundred episodes were just free on YouTube. Right. And I could speed them up, which I love.
I love efficiency. If I can listen to something faster or, or do something more efficiently, I love it. So I would speed it up to two times. I think I even had to start at 1.5 on YouTube first for the first couple. And then I worked my way up to the two, but I went through those hundred episodes so fast. I loved those things.
It was so much fun too. It felt like there was something I was missing, right. That, that long form conversation that fly on the wall of these types of conversations. This is what I feel that I’m missing in my life right now is I used to have these types of conversations. All my university friends, I lived in a residence all four years.
So I always had thousands of people around me that I can have a conversation conversation with at any different time. And they’re all having a similar experience. To me, they’re all have a certain level of intellectual. Right. And it was to go from that back to, you know, somebody it’s different than that.
Let’s just call it right. Not to put any blame on anybody there it’s not nobody’s fault, but it was, uh, it was very much exactly what I needed at that point. And it found me at a special point, but it wasn’t that, uh, that, uh, I fell in love with it format there. I didn’t fall in love with the show because I never listened to it past that.
I think this is something that just as I’m speaking it now, I think I need to go back and listen to those first a hundred episodes just for a nostalgic piece. But then also I think I need to get back into that because I think what I fell in love with was in those hundred episodes, I got to know Chris Hardwick to such a level, right?
Like his darkest fears, talking about his, his, uh, his weight loss journey, his journey with alcoholism, like just so many of these things that I learned so much about myself. And I found in those hundred episodes, the type of growth I had with myself, just from hearing somebody be that vulnerable and talk about the mistakes they made, it was.
Mind blowing to me. So then when I ran over those a hundred episodes, I think the next ones were just on his website or something, but there was a paywall and I’m like, okay, it’s not that much. I’ll find something else. There’s got to be more podcasts. And I would just watch this, a documentary series on Scientology.
And, uh, I was very interested in it. And then just happened that Leah Remini from, uh, King of Queens, she’s an actress. And she was in Scientology, was on Joe Rogan that week. And I had this weird thing in my head against Joe Rogan from a small child. Yeah. W well, it wasn’t even that it was just the fact that, uh, I was very anti-marijuana when I was young or for whatever reason, I don’t know, growing up in a small, very conservative values.
Right. It was just, which is so funny to me now, because I’m the most live and let live everybody. And anything, as long as you’re not hurting nobody, like I have no qualms with any of this stuff. But back then, I really did. And all of my friends that were on the other side, when I get in arguments, that was all you really throw out with Joe Rogan smokes, weed, Joe Rogan smokes weed.
I’m f*** Joe Rogan then. Right. That was um, so I just had the single, my head. Uh, w who he was and what he stood for. And then I listened to this episode and he’s kind and compassionate and intelligent and asking questions.
And it’s just that genuine curiosity just hooked me in from the start. And I think one of the next episodes, like, I, I kind of dabbled in a couple of different podcasts from there, but one of the episodes that I listened to was the weight loss challenge with two comedians, Bert Kreischer, who I already talked about and Tom Segura who were just two of the funniest guys, they have two of the biggest podcasts in the world.
Uh, um, well, they had like 10 podcasts. Actually. They have a whole podcast network. Uh, your mom’s house, a podcast network. It’s got amazing shows. If you want any recommendations, go there. Not for the faint of heart. It’s some pretty, uh, uh, raunchy comedy there most of the time. But anyways, they did this weight loss challenge on Joe Rogan and they did the weigh ins, I think when I kind of tuned into it.
And I was sitting there at work trying to listen to these podcasts, but I’m belly laughing, like dying. And everyone’s like, what are you doing? So I had to turn it off and had to watch it at home, but ever since then, and then I went from there, I started listening to Toms and Bert’s podcasts from there.
And then I just started watching Joe and I’d find all these other people. And then I was this an Ari Shaffir and then all these people, and then Joe Rogan would have these scientists on. And that was this whole other area of it. That totally. Is up my alley. That’s I love science. I love, you know, scientists and people pushing the boundaries of where our knowledge lies.
That’s so up my alley. And then to find that it was just like a rocket ship after that. And ever since then, I’ve been listening to so much content and, uh, just taking it all in and that feeling of finding a new podcast and really getting into it and, you know, just spending a whole weekend, you know, listening to 30 episodes of it on two times speed and just, you know, Oh, I love that feeling.
And it’s never ending because I’m still finding new podcasts. Right. And to be at this point where you’re this familiar with the format and the, in the, in the, in the medium to be able to still find that joy of that first day of finding a new podcast is so special to me. And I think that’s what, I just want more people to connect with that.
And obviously not, everybody’s going to be a podcast head like me and really associate with the medium, but there are those people out there. And I think that data
K.Lee Marks: [01:14:35] or 50% of people I think listen to podcasts now, really that’s, that’s the latest that I heard, according, at least in the U S I think,
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:14:43] Oh man, I would have, uh, that’s awesome.
Cause I would have guessed way lower than that.
K.Lee Marks: [01:14:47] It was recently like last year it’s gone up a lot.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:14:51] I bet you, I bet you throughout the COVID pandemic. It’s definitely, uh, definitely up that rate too, of just people, you know, just looking for, I think if anything, it probably showed people the failures of some of the institutional media, uh, More so than anything.
And they’re just desperate for whatever it is, whether that’s podcasts, which is a dangerous thing too, because that’s where people go down. Some rabbit holes of some, you know, conspiracy theory stuff where you’re just so disenfranchised with the mainstream. You’re willing to take a flyer on anything, which is a very dangerous place to be.
Right. It’s kind of that if you, uh, if you don’t stand for it, no, if you’ll, if you don’t stand for anything you’ll kneel for anything or whatever, whatever that saying is…
if you don’t stand for something you’ll kneel for anything.
That’s the one that’s the ticket. Thank you very much. You know, I, I feel like I see that a lot in what’s going on right now and that’s what’s, but then you see this demonization of them when me, and you can just spend, you know, two minutes and follow the logic of how they got there with compassion and say like, Oh, I may not agree with what happened to them, but I see how they got there and I’m not going to call them a bad person because you could, you know, I, I know a bunch of people from my hometown that, you know, put in the same situation.
If they lived in the States, they probably would have done the same thing. And it’s hard for me to see all the venom spit their way, where I also don’t agree with what’s happening, but you can’t just go all the way to demonization. When they’re now the enemy, you have to have a little bit of space for compassion for how did they get there?
Was that reasonable? Maybe not, but was it logical in their mind? Can you put yourself in their shoes and understand that? And that’s something I think I got a lot from podcasts was I was never a very, no, I was always a compassionate person, but sometimes I really struggled with getting out of my own mind.
I think that was something I struggled with from being a little kid. If I can understand this, how come these people can’t understand this, especially adults, like how can I get this right? And I always fought with teachers and I had a big disconnect with that. And to see people on podcasts, be vulnerable, both at it really allows you to step into their shoes.
And then that skill you grow that skill of if every day you’re putting yourself into somebody else’s shoes for a couple hours at a time over and over, over again now at work or in a relationship that skill of putting yourself into somebody else’s shoes and seeing things from their perspective is that much sharper.
And I feel like that is probably the skill that podcasts have given me over anything. It’s just that, and just the huge leap in my life that I got to see. And then now doing it myself and trying to talk with people. I’ve just found like the, the rate of personal growth has just every, the more I dive into the subject of podcast, whether it was listening or on my own, the deeper I get into it, the steeper that that curve of growth gets for myself.
And I don’t know if that’s for everybody, but I can’t imagine it’d be that much different.
K.Lee Marks: [01:17:26] I feel like I have a couple of different directions. I want to take this. I really like what you’re saying. Um, this, practicing this skill of putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and understanding, and, and you’re saying you kind of felt like you’ve learned that from podcasting.
Um, do you, do you find that it helps you like admit if you make a mistake or I wrong about something?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:17:51] For sure. For sure it does. I think that was a, and I think I can. Definitely put that one. That lesson specifically on Joe Rogan. I think he was always from the first time I started listening to him and then I also went to his back catalog once I found him.
Right. I would catch up with his that week and then I would start going backwards from there. The ones that I hadn’t heard. Right. The ones before Leah remedy back down, I think I was in like the two hundreds when I gave up on that. Just cause I have so many podcasts. I don’t have time to go back to historical Joe Rogan’s.
Right. But he was always, always, always talking about that of don’t be tied to your ideas. You, uh, if you get challenged and you believe that you are wrong, admit it and move forward. Right. And that is something I respect in people. And that is just a value that I see. I have elevated so much through that, understanding both for myself and in other people.
So now when I see it in other people, or more often than that, you see the lack of that in other people, it’s such a turnoff to see people that can’t admit faults and it’s such a turn on and maybe poor terminology, you know what I mean? Rather sensitive.
K.Lee Marks: [01:18:52] I totally understand what you’re saying. Why, why do you think that is?
Like, why is it so hard to admit, like speaking for myself, I know that I’ve been defensive in the past, especially in partnership. It’ll be like, you know, so much is on or it feels like so much is at stake if I’m wrong. Right. And I think that, and then there’s ego and that hurts. But why do you think it hurts so much to just admit
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:19:13] what well, how much time you got?
Because I, I have a. Theory that it’s not my theory, but it’s something that I’ve read that I feel very strongly about that I think is very much tied to this. If you, if you’ve got a couple of minutes here. Cause it’s
K.Lee Marks: [01:19:26] yeah, we got, we got some times let’s hear it.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:19:29] So, uh, I was listening to a Lex Friedman podcast with, uh, I think his name was Sheldon Solumberg maybe again, I’ll have to check that, but, uh, he was talking about this, uh, this theory called, um, um, Oh, I’m forgetting it again. I just forgot it. And then another podcast, uh, um, anyways, it’s this theory. I don’t remember the name of it. I’ll I’ll send to you after you can put it in the show notes, but it’s a theory about people understanding their own mortality, right?
And that our fear of death in our own mortality is so central to who we are as beings just being, uh, conscious beings that eventually gained consciousness to the point where we could, um, think about our own mortality, which has never happened in any other creature on the earth, right? There’s you don’t see dogs thinking about their own mortality.
You don’t see that. It’s the thing that comes with consciousness. It’s unique. And it gives us this power to compartmentalize that away so that we can go on with their lives and do our day to day. And that happens in a lot of ways. And a lot of it, as you build up this, uh, this armor of values around you, right?
For thousands of years, this was religion for everybody that was that base value that everyone built it upon. It’s now becoming different things for a lot of people. Now that’s wealth, that’s status, that’s all these things and how those relate to each other, you know, When somebody, when something, or somebody breaks that faith in that armor that you have, it’s a crack and it goes right back to your deepest fear of your own mortality.
And that’s why people react so harshly. That’s why there’s a book called the worm at the core that I read. That was absolutely incredible. I can’t recommend it and recommend it enough. My girlfriend actually just read it and she’s not a reader books, aren’t her thing. But she’s even saying like, Oh my God, everybody needs to read this book because there’s so much information.
And so many studies about things like just subtle death reminders before certain things completely shift how you go about things, how you react. Um, and they give you a, there was all these studies, you know, they’d walk somebody by a mortuary or something and then ask them questions and how they react.
And we’re so out of touch with it because we don’t meditate on our mortality. We don’t sit without that. And we’re so uncomfortable with it that we push it away and we build all these things around it, but you know, somebody and so much of it, what you see right now is what that is for a lot of people, if it’s right or left, it’s their tribes.
So now you see these attacks at the left or the right, whatever, whichever you’re on that is attack. Not only at this thing you surround yourself with, but that’s an attack at your core being. And there’s so many pieces of this, right? And a lot of times it’s, uh, for people at status, right? Because of social media, I think it’s changed that it’s kind of a hijacked that a system and made social status, that thing for everybody.
So when your social status becomes questioned, whether that’s because you feel silly or, you know, you were wrong on something that immediate reaction, it’s not just your reaction to that. It’s your reaction to this. Primordial fear of your own death and the overreaction that you see. And I feel like that once you understand that you see it everywhere.
After I read that book, I can’t stop seeing that, uh, that, uh, that theory in all things. Right. And it’s so permitting, just like a lot of things. When you talk about things like faith or religion, once you understand them to a certain depth, you see them everywhere and it all becomes, you know, one thing, and, you know, you could read a book on Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, all these things.
But once you understand one of them down to a certain degree, you will see that same thing in all the texts, right. It’s, it’s a, it’s a very much, um, you know, unilateral thing. And I feel like that is something with this theory that I keep saying theory. Cause I feel like it’s just going to pop into my mind the name of the, of, of what it is, but man, it’s bugging me anyways.
Uh, yeah, so that, that is what I think is so much behind, uh, what these overreactions are in people. And I think the more people dive into that and become more comfortable with who they are and not tying themselves to their ideas so that you put yourself in a vulnerable position like that, where you will overreact, uh, the world would be a better place once we all start to, uh, have a little bit more acceptance of that and a little bit more compassion.
K.Lee Marks: [01:23:20] I agree with you. What do you have, like a thing you say to yourself when that happens, that you can like, is there an internal script running along? It’s like, Oh, this is that death thing. I’m not going to die. I’m okay. I can be wrong. You know, like, do you say something or?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:23:35] I, I personally don’t because I feel like, uh, More so I don’t register it in the moment. I think a lot of times it’s far after the fact where you’re really sitting on it, thinking, why did I overreact? Like, what was that? They’re like, I’ve, you know, I’ve kind of gone over most of my, most of my issues. I don’t think that was any of the ones that was all that really connected with this.
And that made me feel this way. Right. Like, and, and I feel like that is more so how I see it. Um, but, uh, yeah, but, but I also feel like I learned that lesson. I feel like I just heard about this theory later on and it kind of added credence to what, you know, I learned already from Joe just about that. And already I have the value on not being attached to my ideas and not, and being okay with being wrong.
Cause I love being wrong. I’m such a stubborn person that if someone convinced me that I’m wrong, that’s the other side of the coin is I’m a stubborn mother. And if you want to convince me I’m wrong, it’s going to take some, some real arguments. Right. And that’s why I love having a podcast of bringing people on, bringing on, you know, a sharp minds to sharpen yours against right.
Steel, sharpens steel. And I think that’s so much about bringing on intellectual people to test your ideas against, with that full understanding that if I am wrong, I’m willing to admit it and I’ll change my I’ll change my tune, but I feel like I get such a, uh, such a positive, uh, out of being wrong. That it’s completely changed how I see that.
And now, and I think I didn’t realize that, but I think that decision. Disattached me from a lot of what I described with that theory. I think I still have a big fear of death and it manifests in other ways, but in overreacting to things, that question, or I think what it taught me was just maybe too, don’t have, try to limit the things I believe in that much, that, that are attack vectors for that reason.
Right? Like if, if you, uh, if you make it so that you’re so tied to your wealth status right. Of how much money you have and, and what that brings you, all you’re doing is giving an easy opportunity for somebody to hurt you really like when, what really matters is family and love and compassion and your relationships between people.
And I feel like in finding podcasts, I’ve put much more emphasis on that and much less emphasis on all the silly things that get you caught up, right? The social media likes and all that kind of stuff in the numbers and, and those things. Whereas I think it’s, and you can’t blame. You have to hold compassion for people for that, because it’s, there’s so much power at work to try and make that, that thing for people.
And there’s so much money being made by keeping people where the number one thing in their life, that thing they hit, they hinged their entire being on is their social media status that, uh, you can’t really blame them for falling for that trap. You know, there’s just billions of dollars, trillions of dollars behind it.
Right. It’s, uh, it’s, uh, a little bit disappointing at times to see, but I think the podcasts are kind of. Slowly changing that tide and opening people up to that idea. And hopefully over time, it’ll, you know, more people will see it for what it is and get to a more balanced place where they’re more about self accountability out of that pity party.
And because I think what that happens with that is you have these things that means so much to you. And because you’re so worried about the attack that it brings up all these feelings, you never sit with yourself, you never ask these questions. You never go deeper because it’s painful. It’s scary to ask these questions about yourself, right?
That’s that deep work is one of the scariest things people can do. So. What all programs take the easy out. So they, they never do it. And I think that is what needs to change is just, people need to understand the value of, you know, sitting with yourself and asking those tough questions and finding out what do you believe in what are you standing for even unintentionally, right.
Subconsciously what is it that your value system rides upon? Because, you know, everybody had that easy out of having that be religion for thousands of years, but it seems like in the last 50 that has changed, but nothing has come up to uniformly, take its place. So everybody has to do that on their own, which is a scary prospect when you get up to 8 billion people, that there’s a lot of people that can have some weird, weird value systems that’s for sure.
K.Lee Marks: [01:27:17] Yeah. Yeah. Trying to find a unified value system that we can, again, it’s coming back to that co-exist idea. And so, you know, there’s part of me that wants to go into the religion and truth conversation. Cause it’s super interesting. And there’s another part that wants me to go into the man masculinity part in this .
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:27:36] I love both those topics topics.
K.Lee Marks: [01:27:39] We’ll start with there because it’s what you’re talking about with like sitting with a feeling and then going deep into it. And it’s almost like there’s a pot of gold at the end of it. It may not be like a pleasant feeling, but there’s information that’s valuable at the end of it.
So I guess my question for you is like, what is it like being a man for you in 2021? Like what, what is that experience like?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:27:59] Um, I think it’s great. I think that answer would have been very different. Before I found podcasts. I think one of the biggest thing, finding guys like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson and Lex Freeman and the Weinstein brothers of just showing you that it’s okay to be, to be a man and to what values of that are good and what are bad, but then also balancing out people like Aubrey Marcus.
Actually, I just listened to yesterday, a podcast on the divine, masculine and feminine with Aubrey and a and two specialists, one that specialized in the masculine one that specialized in the feminine and the pieces of both those and how important they are. And I, and I love this topic. I’m glad you went there because I think there’s so much tearing it apart right now.
I think there’s so much, uh, social capital in having a society that really gets in touch with both of those sides, both men and women getting in touch with their male and feminine sides. And I think there’s so much that comes from it, but there’s so much right now making that radioactive, right?
There’s so much things about toxic masculinity and just to bring up masculinity is almost a swear word these days. And it’s, so what I worry about as, I don’t think I started to feel that until I was already old enough to kind of see through it, like maybe 16, 17, or man, there’s a lot of hate for men, but you know, I’m a good dude.
This is doesn’t apply to me. You know, I respect women. I have all these things and it doesn’t really apply to me. But if I, what I think of is these people that, you know, were born say 2002 onward. They’re going to grow up in a, in a, in an age where masculinity is very much demonized and there’s not a lot of good male role models that show the positive sides of the masculine, not only to boys, but to young girls because to young girls, they need that masculine side.
Right? I think one of the biggest things I’d heard on that podcast was, uh, how powerful, um, the power of female intuition is and, and, and what that, and how that evolved over the years and, and what a power it is. But with the imbalance we’ve gotten to, to, uh, to, to our society and the demonization of the male aspects.
Now there’s so much indecision with females that they can’t use that biggest gift of theirs, where they don’t have that masculine energy to believe in themselves. And to say, you know, what I’m feeling right now is true and not their fault, right? There’s a lot of factors at work that was holding that down and preventing them from doing that.
But I think there’s so much, um, power in bringing the, the positive aspects of masculinity back to both men and women. And I think also, I think this has been known for a longer time and has been kind of a constant trope. You see it even further back is men getting in touch with their feminine side and the power of that.
But I think this. Going the other way is almost a newer thing than that. Right. But I think there’s power in both of them and you need to have the balance and there’s always important pieces of both.
K.Lee Marks: [01:30:45] Uh, yeah, there’s so much there. The there’s this phrase where the medicine is often found next to the poison, like in nature, oftentimes the antidote will be next to whatever the poisonous plant is.
And there’s, there, there is such a thing as toxic masculinity and toxic femininity in there. And there’s the divine counterpart of that. And, and they may be close to each other. So it’s like, I feel it’s so important to go in and to be with that experience. And the experience is going to open up a portal to whatever it is that we need to get from that feeling, that feeling as an alarm.
And I don’t know, man, the internet is crazy and there is just, you know, social like Instagram is, is not safe. Like you have to really be diligent about pruning your feed so that you’re not constantly assaulted with just so much stuff that is, um, designed to out of presence to pull you into, to make you thirsty, to make you, um, Just focused on the screen as long as possible, you know, and, and I feel like young men and boys have more struggle with that than ever.
And then young women, they’re, they’re getting constantly confronted with all this comparison and all the, all these, these pictures of what you’re supposed to look like and supposed to do. And it’s, it’s a pretty intense situation out there, which is again, another coin in the deposit bank of podcasting, why I love this platform because it’s something super simple and streamlined and pure and authentic about it that removes some of these extra bells and whistles that are designed to sort of like, co-opt your brain into holding you into one place.
Um, but I think it’s so important to be having these conversations now, like redefining what is it to be a man now? And, and how do we show up? Because we don’t have to show up the same way that we used to, you know, we don’t, it just like you’re talking about the story to the path to podcasting is different back in 2000 than it is now.
And so that, just this simple thing of being with a feeling, I think a lot of dudes are disconnected with their body and what it feels like because pornography, because of, um, some, you know, too much substance stuff, I’ll speak for myself. Like if I am, um, just to. Um, you know, checking my email and scrolling and on social media too long, it frazzles my brain and it, and it, and, you know, Duncan Trussell talks about is that disassociated feeling, and it is not easy to stop.
It’s not easy. And so, you know, it’s, I think we need brothers. We need people to, to hold us accountable and, and who we can go to with, with complicated feelings and complicated things and be able to be like, Hey, this is what I’m, I’m struggling with. This is what I’m ashamed of right now. This is, you know, what I’m proud of this is, this is what I’m going through right now.
And, and up until now, it’s like, what do guys do when they get together? And this is a generalization, obviously there’s so many different groups of guys, but what do, what’s the like stereotypical guy hanging out together thing. It’s like playing video games and watching sports, which is not a connective experience.
I mean, it is connective on like a heart level and being fun and it’s great. And it has a time and place, but it is not a present centered. What am I feeling? What are you feeling? What what’s going on here in this crazy human experience. And so I think we have to redefine that as men and as how we’re interacting with each other.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:34:10] I couldn’t, I couldn’t agree with that more. Um, I think one of the biggest things I saw was, uh, getting into this and seeing Joe Rogan talk on his podcast on this huge platform, boat, him crying, and that he’s a soft guy and that, you know, he loves like happy crying and stuff, which was always something that I struggled with where I grew up.
It was a very, you know, masculinity was very much had one track and how to follow it and how to be masculine. And I was very emotional all the time. I was always, uh, you know, much more in touch with my feminine side, just, uh, throughout my life. And, and I don’t think I realized, or I had a lot of shame around that.
And I feel like hearing somebody like Joe, that I looked up to so much for all of his masculine traits and his alpha ness and all that stuff, to be able to show that he can also hold both pieces. And that opened me up to people like dunk like Dunkin, right? Because it was usually the people that were very much.
In touch with their feminine side, that would go on Joe Rogan, and would pull it out of him and that he would see it, right. The more emotional people he would get on that wavelength. It’s hard not to when you’re sitting in front of somebody for three hours, but then it opened up people like, uh, Pete Holmes and, uh, and Duncan Trussell.
And these guys that, and Aubrey Marcus, like those three people for me were so instrumental in just doing that deep work, showing that it’s okay. Showing it’s okay to feel feelings and sitting with them and the power you can get by understanding, okay, why am I feeling this feeling? What is that reacting to?
Okay, well, I seem to react to that all the time. What does that go to? Okay. As a kid and I’ve in the past year, I have found out so many things of why I do the things I do from thinking back with those, you know, just taking that quiet time to find out why I am the way I am. And then just the, when you find things like that one it’s exciting.
It’s like, Oh, I’ve learned something about myself. It feels good. Right? And it’s you go through a lot of scary and a lot of pain and a lot of things to get there, but once you do it, it’s awesome. But then the immediate effect on your life, when you find one of those key pillars of trauma from your childhood, that you find out why it is, and you can actually forgive yourself or to forgive whoever it was.
I had a lot of the time, it’s apparent that is trying the best and you have enough life experience to see what they were going through at that time. And to understand with compassion that they weren’t trying to hurt you in that moment. Right? Like for me, it’s my body images. I was always quite an overweight kid.
You know, I’m in pretty good shape. Now still got a couple of pounds to lose, but I’m in a lot better spot with it, but I really. Struggled with losing weight because I really didn’t. I had a lot of disrespect for myself. I very much, uh, you know, hated how I looked at. It was because my parents growing up were always on me about my weight and all, and it was coming from a loving place.
They wanted me to be healthy, but to me as a kid, it was, you know, hurtful. And then you go to family outings and all your aunties and uncles in your, your, your grandparents are on a, about it. It’s just so harmful to you that you can never get to that spot. And I found, I was always really struggling with losing weight and lose weight.
I could never do it because every time I’d start to have success, you know, my dad would say, Oh, Hey, good job. We’re looking really good. And in my head today, , you did this to me, you know, and I go on this destructive cycle of, you know, you caused this and I’m not doing this for you. I’m doing this for me and all this stuff.
And I kept saying, saying those things in my head, but I hadn’t really, I hadn’t forgiven them. I hadn’t forgiven myself. And I was in a place where I wasn’t loving myself. And in going through that, forgiving myself for that forgiving everybody else around me and starting to love myself, I found that opened the door to actually losing the weight and getting healthy and feeling like I deserve to be healthy right.
In those ways. But then also to find other way areas, right. That was the biggest pillar. That was probably my biggest, you know, and I’m so thankful for that. That is my trauma. Oh, I will take that a million times over some of the other terms you hear. Right. And there’s a saying the worst thing that ever happened to you is still the worst thing that ever happened to you.
Doesn’t matter. It’s the worst thing that happened to somebody else is worse, right? How humans are designed and how we need conflict to, to grow. And we need things to push against what used to be, you know, fighting off the Jaguars and the lions that was all in built into, but life got easier. And now our brains in order to grow, they need conflicts to .vent it, even if it’s in , how you’re receiving the love from your family, which those things about my weight was love coming from them. They wanted me to be healthy, but because I needed conflict, my life was so easy. I will turn that into conflict in my own head and I’ll create that. Right. And I think just opening that up and realizing that that’s okay.
And to find these feelings and the, the, having a proof case, example of the positivity that can come from finding one of those traumas, seeking it out and dealing with it, and the quality of life improvements that come after. That was just so exponential that now I’m excited for the natural. Okay. What else bugs me, you know?
And then you start to see it. Once you go through that process of finding something big, one, two times. Now you start to see the warning flags and where does that come up? Where did you react in date? Oh, what’d you get really mad at? What was that? What’d you dig down on that? Right. So now another one I found was I really react when people say things that make it seem like I don’t, I didn’t work for what I had and what I deserve.
Right. And growing up, my dad was a very successful business person in a small town. Everyone saw it and everyone treated me a certain way that I was a rich kid and all this, which was, you know, they rode me very hard and made sure that I had work ethic, got a job from the time I was 11. I’ve never not had a job.
Like I’m always working towards it. They were very much building that in me, but everybody else from the outside would just chert me about it. And I know that I still have that in me. So then what I’m trying to get to is you’ll recognize the things that you react to, where it used to be a negative. Now it’s a positive because it goes, Oh, I just overreacted to something.
Usually not in the moment. Usually it’s a couple of minutes or hours or days later that you realized, Hey, there’s something there. And then the next time you have some quiet time, you can sit and think about that. Why did I overreact? What does that go back to ? What are some other situations where I’ve reacted to maybe not the same thing, but a similar vein of it?
And then just trying to. Find that out and that mindset shift of seeing, you know, overreactions or times where you’re not as proud of yourself as positive instead of negative is such a relief and is just such a better way to walk through the world, knowing that instead of being scared of all this, and when am I going to react, what am I going to react to?
Why am I reacting person? Why am I so angry all the time? Those are hard questions. It’s a hard place to walk to the world in so much calmer too. You still don’t understand all, but you’re never going to completely unravel that web of what’s going on up here. That’s a lifelong journey that is never ending, but those small pieces just give you so much validation that you’re doing the right work and that this work matters.
And I just, uh, I would have never had that if I never heard, you know, Joe Rogan talk about being okay, you know, being not okay. And that, and bringing on people that echo that message and maybe had were more in touch with that feminine side to really take you down those roles. Right. I think, uh, you know, Aubrey, Pete Holmes and, and Duncan, I don’t want to give any, any one of those three, any more credit than the other, because they’re all so impactful in that journey.
And, uh, and it was funny that you wanted to talk with the masculinity in this kind of side of it instead of going down the religion path. Cause I think I almost took both those in tandem, having people like. Uh, Duncan and Pete Holmes opened up my idea of what religion was and expanding, you know, the overall, instead of picking one and diving down into that, looking at them all and the common threads that run through them, all, they were teaching the same lessons that I was getting through podcasts.
And people were saying the same messages, just with different words, right? Like we were talking about how words are just trying to convey intent. Right. But they’re not a very good job. So there’s these big overarching ideas that we’ll never be able to put words to. Right. That’s, that’s almost as good a definition for religion as you could ever find.
Right. Just that, that thing that you could never put words to that thing that’s, that transcends all words. Right. And I think that’s, uh, in learning that lesson to really wrote down all these barriers of, I was always so rigid and logical about how I looked at things and just seeing things in more of an abstract sense, like that really allowed me to open up to some areas where I never would have even walked down that path because I thought all that silly, or, you know, this is going to sound terrible, but it’s from where I grew up in, I’m using a content context specific, you know, that’s gay, you know, to me, that is all I heard growing up that that’s gay, that’s gay.
Right. And to me you’re so, you know, Oh, I don’t want to be that, that sounds bad. Everyone’s saying that’s bad. Right? Like even somebody like myself that didn’t even have anything to attach that to. Right. And it’s so much of that program. You don’t realize how deep that goes and you have to, until you sit there and realize it.
You don’t realize what programs are running in the background, and once you do, you’re so much better off for it, but it’s hard to explain that to people just like, it’s hard to explain to people what they’re going to get out of the podcast, that they really give it a chance. It’s hard to explain to people what they’ll get out of that deep work or that shadow work or whatever terminal there’s a million different terminologies for that, you know, just meditation.
I mean, it there’s so many words for it, but it’s so powerful and so hard to convey. Cause everybody’s different everybody’s experience with it will be different. Again, I forgot what the question was.
K.Lee Marks: [01:42:44] Th this is one of the reasons why I was really excited to have this conversation because, um, your understanding you’re having the same trippy realizations about podcasting that I am and different ones, but I mean, I feel like we’re, we’re on the same page about it.
And so it’s really great and gratifying to get to speak with you about it. And I’m thinking, um, I’m aware, it’s making me realize words and it actually goes back to this, thanks for the feedback book. And it goes back to law and it goes back to everything the country’s going through right now. And the power of speech, the power of words, the power to communicate is it’s not only how we interact with each other, but it is how we perceive the world.
Like I would say, if you get really good at meditation, You probably can experience what direct experience is like of, of awareness and consciousness, right? And maybe you’re not using linguistics in there, but 90% of the time throughout the day, we’re having thoughts. And we’re having the same thoughts probably that we had the day before, but we’re having, we’re having these thoughts and we’re communicating with ourselves and the piece you mentioned about the self-talk and, you know, um, I went through a program called the deep psychology of intimate relationships this year through the relationship school, Jason Gaddis.
He has a podcast called the relationship school podcast and they take, uh, they took 40 people through a nine month course where we learn about attachment theory. We learn about needs and boundaries and communication. We learn about family systems. We learn about all these psychological things and all the, you know, the Gottman’s research and just the latest in couples science and how couples regulate and code.
I’m just trying to put it into words,
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:44:27] take your time.
K.Lee Marks: [01:44:28] I’m trying to put it into words. It’s so hard to put into words. That’s the thing. It is it basically we, at the end of the nine months, we had not, you know, we had this journal of going through all of our childhood and all these different things and, you know, I love so much of what you said, your, your most difficult moment is your most difficult moment.
And you have a right to, to hold that with care and tenderness and to attend to it because oftentimes it’s that it’s that child part of ourself that was not attended to it. Wasn’t seen it. Wasn’t soothed. It didn’t feel safe. It didn’t feel supported. And. And it’s our job as an adult to go repairing it.
And, you know, podcasting in general, like putting ourselves out there just immediately makes us have to confront being seen our body image, all that stuff. You know, I, I had, I had a different messaging than you, but similar in the sense that I just, uh, you know, my, my father told me that I was, you know, like average looking or something.
And then I just, I take that message and I write it in my brain and I tell him, yeah. And replays plays. Yeah. And it’s like, what does that even mean? And do I need to be telling myself that, and is that going to help me the most in confidence? And what does that really mean? And that plays from his insecurities and his father’s insecurities and so on and so forth.
And so I truly believe we are all right now, healing generational trauma. We are the, we are the end, the buck stops here. We are the end of our line. And it’s our responsibility to have these conversations too, to continue to evolve that and see what it looks like. And so honestly, like I just felt really inspired seeing you over there doing that work, challenging different things that came up from childhood in your town, different terminology, different things, and having these conversations because, um, I don’t know.
It just really inspires me to, to have other brothers out there doing this stuff, man.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:46:14] Yeah, I’m glad and hearing you say how nice it is to talk to somebody that understands podcasts and the power that is, you know, that was something when you know me and you first started talking, like, I think we’re supposed to have a 20 minute call and ended up going an hour just because it’s, uh, it’s something you don’t get to talk to this depth of with people a lot.
And it’s so reinvigorating when you do so I definitely mirror that back to you. 100%. I couldn’t agree more. It is so reinvigorating to find somebody that understands podcasts is level. And just to, you know, talk shop, I always listened to comedians, um, on their podcast. And we talk about, you know, stand-up comedy is our life.
So if somebody wants to talk common to them, they’ll do it for hours. Right. And I think we saw that on that large episode, right? Like if you will, if you will genuinely show them that topic, they’ll talk for years on it. Second point I remembered the name of the theory. It’s called the terror management theory just to get up because it was bugging the hell out of me.
And it’s a yeah. And the book is called the worm at the core. And then actually I read it another one called a C in there somewhere. Don’t think about death by, uh, uh, Gary Lederman. And he w he was actually on Joe Rogan. If you want to get a piece of who Gary Lederman is, he’s he studied death for, uh, almost 50 years.
He’s, uh, he’s a, uh, academic out of the States. And he’s just a fascinating guy, but, uh, To take it back to something else you said, um, you said when you meditate, you can kind of quiet things down to, I can’t remember the words you used. I, I really liked it, but, uh, almost the core consciousness or, or, or who you are at a being with all these narratives, with all those, you know, those narratives running through your head of, you know, I’m overweight or I’m average, right?
Those stories, those things, you know, all those things you hear from what’s around you, those are all swirling. You don’t realize them, right, because they’re there all the time. But when you can quiet those down, you find this level of who are you without all that stuff. And that’s a scary thing to do a lot of time people, you know, that base insecurity of, I don’t want to know if I could press a button and find out my core being what I really stand for, who I am, how many people would hit that button.
I don’t think very many, right. I think people that have started doing that work and realize the power of realizing that would, but I think people that haven’t, wouldn’t be scared of that. But what I found was, and it’s funny. So with this podcast, I, uh, I was doing my day job, right. With the fuel services.
Right. Very successful for my age. I started out at 23. I was, uh, you know, 26 when I started the podcast. So I’ve been doing it for three years. I had, you know, everything that growing up, I thought was going to be exactly what I wanted. Right. I had money. I had, you know, Status. I had, uh, all those things I thought I had, and I wasn’t very happy with it.
And I was getting down and down, down, and I was so jealous all these podcasts and that in that the art expression, I couldn’t talk to anybody about it. And I just, uh, got to a point where I was very depressed and I couldn’t fix it. Couldn’t fix it. And depression was new to me. I was always a happy guy. I was always very outgoing and it was scary as hell.
I was terrified of it because I was just, so it’s going to be like forever, because nothing I’m trying is changing this. And I got very desperate and I went to my back to my hometown and my parents for a weekend. And I told them what was going on and opened up about it, but it still didn’t help. And then on the Sunday, before I left, I said, I’m going to try this meditation thing.
I’ve never meditated my life. I’m going to try it. And I meditate for 20 minutes and it was the first thing I did that made me feel a bit better. And I was like, Oh, that’s good. You know, just, even if I still don’t feel great, like there’s that small piece. And I’m sure it was the meditation and seeing my parents and have some home cooked meals and, you know, crying a bit and letting it out.
And that kind of thing that, that brought me there. But, you know, meditation was a big thing. So I kept doing it. And then I found that as I got into meditation, this weird thing happened, happen where if I had a really tough thing going on at work or with the podcast or an idea I want to do when I would sit there and not think about anything.
These great ideas would come to me. And it was like, you’re tapping into something else. When you quiet down all this other stuff, you tap into this other thing. I don’t know what it is. I haven’t explored it that much. I mean, that whole process was, you know, seven or eight months ago. So I’ve only been meditating and I’ve been meditating pretty solid almost everyday since then.
And I’ve found different ways to meditate, to bring different effects on and these things, but just that quieting everything down to touch into to tap into something else that I don’t know what it is, was such a cool experience. That’s something I’ve tried to explain to other people. And it’s just hard to, it’s one of those things that it’s hard to put to words, but I think there’s so much power in that.
And I feel like that is whether it’s meditation that gets you there, or some sort of deep work or, or, or, uh, a craft, right? I think some people probably would get their surfing or running or they’re, there’s certain ways, whatever that is with you, that gets to that point. And I fail. I feel like meditation is a, is a good starting place for people, but I think there’s just so much power in it.
And I don’t know what that power is. I’m still exploring it for myself, but it was very clear to me from the first time I did it, that this is a powerful tool and it’s not to be trifled not trifled with, sorry, but it’s not, it’s not to be
K.Lee Marks: [01:51:01] on the shelf and never used
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:51:03] exactly. Which is exactly what I was doing with it.
I just thought that’s silly. That’s for weak people, you know, that’s for, I dunno what I thought, you know, probably some narrative that I heard from the time I was six years old, you know, all week people meditate wherever it’s probably some narrative that was running. But when I actually did it turn all those things off I found and, and kind of the point I was trying to get to of that, you know, who you are at a core being I found when I meditate, I quiet things down.
I did really like who I saw and, and I, and I loved the ideas that come up and I love my brain and I loved how my mind works. I’m going to be a weird dude that clocks I could check in when I’m bored in the office here. But I love that person. And I feel like that I got, I was really working on loving myself already because I understood through hearing other people talk about it.
But I think that experience of actually you talk about loving yourself, but nobody knows who that self is. It’s that self underneath all these narratives and all these words and all these things that are swirling around you, you never really see who that person is at the bottom to even see if you are okay with it.
And I found that process of just getting down to that core being of who you are. And again, you can’t put it to words, but I really liked who it is. And every time I meditate and it brings you back and sometimes how I’m walking through life, it’s not who I like to be. And I’m not very proud of that person, but I find the easiest thing to get me back onto the track of who I want to be it’s to sit down and f-ing meditate again.
Right? Like that’s and it brings you back into it. It’s not foolproof. You still slip up, but just that. Having that tool in my tool bag now is such a big moment in such a huge thing that I feel like I’m a crazy personon my podcasts I probably talked about meditating on the, you know, 40 to 45 podcasts department.
It’s just so impactful. And I just, if one person gets something out of it, I think I even did an episode where I went through that process and how I meditate and what different ways, because I never took any courses. I watched one video online and I was like, this is silly. I’m just gonna try it out myself and kind of got into it now to experiment, to try all these things.
Just cause I feel like there’s probably a lot of people like me that will feel silly trying to watch videos on how to do it and just want to kind of try it. So I just kind of laid it out in that way and hopefully someone will take out of that and get maybe some of those lessons that I learned out of it themselves.
K.Lee Marks: [01:52:59] Yeah. Wow. I love it. I love that. You meditate. When do you meditate? When do you find like what works for you the best?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:53:05] It depends. So usually I try to meditate before every podcast, if I can get the time, right? Sometimes it’s, you know, a five o’clock podcast I’m workingright till 5 o’clock I got a rip in throw this on and I’m going, but I find.
I’m not my best self when I don’t. So I really try to schedule enough time so that I can meditate before I podcast. Um, usually what I do is, uh, at work all, uh, get up at six in the morning, uh, take a, take a shower. And then for the last I pick, uh, I picked three, you know, two songs that are fun, upbeat, and then one, you know, pump up song and I put the shower rate to cold.
Now my cold shower that gets me go in the morning. If I don’t do that, I feel like I don’t have a good day. I need that cold shower in the morning. And that’s been another huge tool that I can’t recommend. Uh, can’t recommend more to people. And then I go through my day and I do intermittent fastest. I won’t eat till, you know, one or two o’clock and I try and get through my day, starting off with that workout, that cold shower, really jump into the day, kick it right in the ass.
And then as I start to Peter out, I’m hungry. I’m kind of grumpy. I go to the place, I get lunch every day. I sit in my truck, I put on the meditation music and 15 minutes and I just go into my meditation. I meditate for 15 minutes. Usually I solve two or three problems that was happening at work. I couldn’t really quite get the right way to do it.
And I go in, I grab my lunch. I throw on the cab of my truck and I eat it while I listen to a podcast and ripped back to work. And I, and I have that. So it’s a all in all from the time I parked start meditating to the time that I grabbed my food aid at, after meditation out, it’s maybe, you know, 25 minutes, but that’s 25 minutes in a day is such a reset for me to go out and crush that rest of that day.
Right. It’s just, that’s what works for me. And then also if I’m having a really bad day and I’m grumpy and I need to meditate, sometimes that’s just. You know, sometimes I need to be told to go have a meditate. Now, sometimes the girlfriend’s like, Hey, you’re being a real asshole today. Go meditate. That’s what some of those things, it’s, it’s a different thing.
And I found that some meditations, I just want to reset. I just want to concentrate on like very calm, breaths, almost that like, you don’t even hear your breath is getting down to there. And that is a, uh, you get something out of those meditation. But sometimes I like to do, you know, five second in five seconds or very deep breathing meditations, and those bring a different state and you get something different out of those.
And then sometimes you’d want to, uh, concentrate less on thinking of nothing and just letting some thoughts come through and combating some things around it. Just sitting there calmly, just thinking things through and like, especially if you have a big issue, I find that if you have a big issue that you can’t sit through of just, you know, try and take the first couple of minutes or your meditation to really get to that nothingness.
But then as those thoughts start to seep in don’t back them away. While you’re in that malleable state. Just see what that, that with some of those narratives turned off, what kind of ideas you can come up with with that? Because you’ve tried it all day with all those narratives run. You couldn’t come up with a solution, try it in this little different state.
So I’ve been just experimenting with all these different ways to meditate and finding awesome results out of it. And then, you know, you’ll find one way you like, and then you find you’ve gone two months and you haven’t been done that one kind of meditation. Then you bring that back in. And now with all that work you did there and you hit a new level at that one.
It’s awesome. Oh, I just, uh, I can talk about meditating for a whole three hours I think
K.Lee Marks: [01:56:00] that’s so awesome. I love those tips. And, and, and just hearing about your routine. Um, I definitely, I wish I had more of a, of a consistent practice I’ve gone in and out. I, um, I’ve done mantra meditation a lot. That’s what these are.
I don’t know if you’ve ever done that, where you chant on these beads and there’s different. There’s different mantras and I’m a musician. So I like sound, but you can chat on these beads. And I also, I like to like fiddle with things. So having bees is nice. And I love going on walks and, and kind of doing the active meditation where it’s not like no mind, it’s more like let’s problem solve in a flow state.
Kind of. Then I do really get a lot when I can get into my breath and only focus on my breath. And I was following Sam Harris, his meditation app for awhile and yeah, and the Metta loving kindness meditation is really powerful. And I love that. And that really helped build this awareness of like, just to give an overview for anyone who doesn’t quite know what I really recommend going and checking it out.
You, you beam love at someone who, who you love, you just meditate on them and you be in this love Ray at them. And after you really sink that in and cement that in you, then you turn it back at yourself and you, and you love yourself kind of tied into what we were talking about with that. Self-talk like giving ourself the love that we can give to others too.
And so to your point, I think there’s just like so many kinds of meditations and there’s so many ways that people can get more present and more mindful, more compassionate, more, more peaceful. And, um, that’s, that’s really cool what you shared there and you know, it’s not religious, it’s not, it’s not, um, Under any sort of banner it’s like for everyone, for every single kind of person can get quiet for a moment and breathe.
And I love what you said about before podcasting. I it’s definitely something I have to do too, is like take a full inhale and a full exhale before I actually intro someone because, uh, the nerves just get caught in the body. Yeah. That’s really interesting. Um, you know, as we, as we get towards the, the nearish end of, of this episode, um, I’m just wanting to open it up for you.
If there’s anything that’s, you know, coming up for you in your mind or anything that you want to talk about. Um, I want to talk a little bit about Von dub cast actually, perhaps, you know, and just really give, give some time to that and just yeah give you, give you some opportunity.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [01:58:18] Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, uh, looking back at my notes, what I wrote down, I was able to circle back to, uh, most of the things you talked about, you know, the meditation, the fact that, you know, words are a poor, uh, a poor representation of intent.
And I think maybe that’s one area where I could tap on tap into that and go a little bit further on it was, I feel like that, like I said earlier in the podcast, I think there’s a lot of importance of society as a whole understanding the faultiness of what words are as a, uh, as a proxy for, for intent, almost said consent there for intent.
Um, and I think people do know that, and I feel like people are waking up to that, but in a poor way, and I’m trying to find the best words to explain this, but I feel like people are. Realizing that words are not exactly the best medium, but instead of what I like to do is just fill in the gaps with compassion of, Oh, you said harsh.
And I had all these meetings, I’m going to try and find the best possible interpretation of those words to, um, have compassion for that person and for yourself, right. Of all. They said something to me instead of going in and think of the worst interpretation of what those words are, all they’re probably having a bad day.
They probably didn’t mean it that much. And just think of everything through, with compassion. I think that is the second step to that. And I kind of said the first step is to understand that words are a poor proxy for intent, but I think the second step to that is to understand that and fill in the rest of those gaps with compassion and love instead of, you know, twisting their words and making them look bad and cutting and clipping, which is what you see is the dominant narrative of how people, you know, social media and the news and stuff.
That’s how they use that. Everyone understands that words. Aren’t very good right in that people aren’t. And I think that’s what offends you. That’s what makes podcasts so powerful is now you want to take a couple of my words that I may be in Noah sloppier. I didn’t get my meditate in that day. So I didn’t explain something totally.
Correct. You have these hours and hours of your takes on these subjects of how you go about it as kind of an armor around it of who you really are in your true self and your expression. I feel like with so much cancel culture going on right now. And so many people just being taken down left, right. And center either deservedly or undeservedly.
I feel like the one thing I’ve realized over the last five years of listening to podcasts, nobody. Has been taken down, even people like Joey Diaz, who is, uh, you know, was a Coke addict for 40 years, did some of the most crazy robberies and crazy shit, but he’s a good person now. And he’s been honest about that and truth about that.
He’s been trying to be they’ve tried to cancel them like six times and the swell of people that come up behind them on social media and defend him and say, you, if you want to take this guy down here, take me with him because they have that. It’s so beautiful for me to see that of just someone you believe in so intently and you know who they are as a core being of that goodness of, you know, when all those narratives are turned off of that core, being that you can’t put words to how powerful that is.
I feel like podcasts are armor around that to show if you can pull those narratives back and you may only give people a glimpse into that real true being once every 30 episodes for two minutes, right? But people can feel that and they can feel sometimes you get close. Sometimes you don’t really, sometimes you might do a whole podcast and you’re just not in it.
And that day you can’t get to that vulnerable place, but if you do it for long enough and you try hard enough, you will put some sort of version of yourself out there where people can really see who you are. And I feel like that is something to me where like Joe Rogan is the business’ biggest example of this because he’s has just so much content out there, right?
Like 1800 episodes of three hours at a pot. That’s a lot of, a lot of time and now he could die tomorrow. Knock on wood. You know, I don’t want to put any bad Juju out there, but. He would be remembered on in a way that I don’t think anybody in history, I feel like
K.Lee Marks: [02:02:02] it’s almost like a digital ghost,
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [02:02:04] it’s a digital ghost. And it’s to a point where, you know, it only lasts on.
And I feel like only if those hard copies remain right, if, you know, uh, EMP went off and all the lack of knocked out, he would still be remembered, I think for a while. But eventually that fades because people can’t re re reconnect with that. Right. Like I’m sure, you know, Benjamin Franklin was one of those people that had one of those core beings that, you know, was something that everyone would talk about for a long time, but just so much time passes.
But if you can keep a record of it, you know, like maybe I didn’t explain that well enough. So that’s why they’re so powerful, right. Because. Exactly. That’s it. That’s, that’s the thing. So that was the right comparison to make. It’s a, um, an author versus a movie star and how they’re remembered, right.
There’s things. They, they both evoke emotion. They both bring things forward, but the true being and the true ideas of what they’re getting across and what you’re being remembered for is so much deeper and so much closer to that true being of what you are. And maybe this is my own lack of understanding of acting, because I’m sure there’s some actors that would have a really strong argument for the depth of who they are showing on screen.
Is that tapping into that thing that we’re talking about and it is showing them in their medium. So maybe it’s a poor example, but I just think that whatever all those levels are and what are you going to leave behind? I feel like podcasting, as long as you’re doing it in that vulnerable way that we kind of discussed right at the start of the most important part of being successful podcast is I think you’re leaving something behind that we’ve never seen before and going forward, we’re going to see something that changes the world.
Right. I think we’re already seeing something that changes the world, but I think we’ve, we’re just seeing the first couple of ripples of it. And there’s a tsunami coming of change that this is going to enact.
K.Lee Marks: [02:03:37] Hmm. I love it. So Von dub cast. Yeah. What I wanted to ask you this back at the beginning, if you, you said it’s, it can be hard sometimes to really describe like what it’s for or who it’s for, or just like what it is that you’re trying to do, but what, what do you want people to know most about Von dub cast?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [02:04:00] I would say that what I would want people to know is that, uh, it is the closest representation to my most vulnerable self that I can have. And then through that, chasing my passions, right. I feel like what I have that separates me from a lot of people is I love passion in any sense. I love people that are passionate about anything.
And I feel like the more knowledge of a subject I can have to help me tap into their passion. Right? Like, uh, if, uh, you’re very passionate about music, I’m also very passionate about music, but even if I wasn’t, because you’re so passionate about, I can tap into that. And I feel like that’s my promise to listeners to that.
I’m just going to keep having people that I’m very passionate about or that have, that are two things I’m passionate about their passion and they have a passion about something and whatever that is. Even sometimes I don’t know what that is, but I can see that they’re passionate about. I think sometimes they haven’t even found it yet.
And I think there’s people that I’ve had on in the past that there’s no one thing that you could point to that is their passion and the thing that’s driving together. But it’s something that I see in people and I’m just going to keep chasing whatever it is that lights that fire for me that fills that cup within me.
And I think that people are going to resonate with it. And I can’t promise that. And it’s a gamble that I’m taking that, uh, There’s some people out there that are gonna, you know, resonate with my viewpoints and my takes on other people’s passions in that. But I think that’s the only thing I can really promise people.
Other than that it’s different every time, right? Depending on the guests, sometimes they’re goofy sometimes, you know, they’re very intellectual. Sometimes they’re heated sometimes they’re, um, very loving. Sometimes they’re very hippy dippy. Sometimes they’re very logical and cold, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a big mixture.
And I feel like I’m just pulling the, my favorite pieces of Joe Rogan, Lex Freidman, the Weinstein brothers, DuncanTrussel, it’s all these people that I watched and I loved. And Joey Diaz, like it’s just all those little pieces put together with my individual spin on it, of who I am and, and how you can see all their influences in me.
And I think that would be what I’d bring forth to people as if you like any of those big podcasts that have kind of dominated the world the last decade. I think you’ll like what I have to say, because it’s so much influenced my them and all the best pieces, all the love and compassion. I feel like that is something that I, what is the common thread between all these podcasters that I love is they all come from a place of compassion and love.
And I feel like that’s something that sounds so silly to say, but it is that common thread that runs through them all. And I feel like knowing that that was the. The, uh, the common thread that drew me to them is that’s the common thread that I want to make sure I have throughout all of my episodes of that.
That is the biggest thing that I’m, that is what I connected with the most and other people. And that is my bet. That is what people are going to connect with me, connect with with me, because I do have so much compassion and so much love in my heart on, you know, growing up as, you know, the cool, tough guy and all that stuff.
But deep down, I was always the big softy, Teddy bear. Like I love talking about emotions and you know, the feminine side. I love all that stuff. Not to mention, you know, the masculine side. I love tough shit] I love cars and I love sports and hockey and fighting and all that stuff. Like I, I, I hold both and I, I love all of those things.
If anything just grabs my attention in any way, I’m there for it. But I think anybody that listen to my podcast, maybe not a specific episode, they would like it. But I think if you listened long enough, you would find some peace that you can connect with me. Cause I feel like I can connect with anybody in some way.
Give me given me enough time. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that’s my elevator pitch. I don’t know if that even made any sense whatsoever, but it kind of made sense in my head.
K.Lee Marks: [02:07:32] Yeah, no, I, I it’s really helpful actually. And um, what fields are your, are your guests in generally? Like what, what are some diverse range?
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [02:07:41] So I would say at the start, most of them are just like people that I know that I see something in. So a lot of it is people that maybe aren’t even. Don’t even have a, like a topic that we would discuss, right? Like authors is definitely something that I want to have on comedians because I love stand-up comedy.
Comedians is something that I really want to dive into and have more on. Like, I would, I would have a comedian on every single day for the rest of my life and be happy as happy as a pig in mud. Right. And that’s one of those things. So, uh, comedies up there, um, science, I love scientists. I love having people on it.
I have yet to have a scientist in the sense of the word that maybe I’m thinking of, of kind of the ones like Lex Friedman would have. Um, but that’s definitely some, I want to have, uh, MMA fighters. I love the sport of MMA. Uh, I’d love to have people on in that sense. And I I’ve yet to, I have a couple kind of in the pipe.
Uh, let me go on. And also I feel like there’s a huge untapped market of, um, YouTubers and streamers that are already used to that vulnerability of showing who they are to their audience and kind of only grow in a very siloed way where they just are, who they are very genuinely on stream everyday. And more people, you know, somebody tells a friend and it’s a very slow growth, but I feel like if there was podcasters that were, that could understand that medium and bring them on it, would they already have all the skillsets that makes somebody good on a podcast in built with them and they could just put it into a new medium.
And I feel like as podcasters wake up to that fact, you’re going to see this windfall of all these streamers and YouTubers coming into the podcast, medium either with their own podcasts or. As guests and growing their market as well. I see. There’s a huge, uh, connection there that hasn’t been totally realized.
I’m sure there is a bunch of areas. I’m not the first one to think of this, but I do think that’s a big area. So I’ve also been working on trying to get some YouTubers on, uh, seeing that. And I’m also very interested in that journey. I feel like it mimics a podcast and journey so much starting a YouTube channel, starting a stream and growing it that way.
It’s so close to what we’re trying to do here that I think it would be very, there’ll be a lot of parallels to explore there. And, uh,
K.Lee Marks: [02:09:47] I think of YouTube is like the video, the video podcast platform, right? Yeah. And it’s interesting because on the phone, it doesn’t block it as a social media app. It doesn’t block YouTube.
So it’s more of a content consuming, uh, like, uh, audible or it’s something like that.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [02:10:03] Yeah. So, yeah. So I think that’s kind of where I’d like to take it. That wouldn’t be very much a representation of who am. And so I had it on so far, um, but that’s kind of where I want to take it in the future. And that’s my goals where those are kind of some of the areas I want to, uh, to go down as well.
But right now it’s just anybody that interests me. Right. I feel like at this point, I’m in my, if you put it in standup terms, I’m in my, uh, open mic time where I just need stage time. I can’t. I guess I could, I shouldn’t say I can’t do this by myself, but for the style that I want to progress in the skills I want to bring, I need somebody in front of me and I can’t be picky who that is.
Anybody that’s willing. I have yet to say no to a guest. I think if I’m doing my job, right, I should be able to do a long form interview with anybody. Everybody has a story it’s up to you. If you can pull that out of them. Right. And I feel like that’s where I’m at right now is I’m willing to have anybody on.
And I’m hoping I’m banking on myself. That I’m interesting enough. And I have enough to bring, which I think gets me in trouble because sometimes I barely let the guests get any words in, uh, if you heard from this interview, that that’s is why I like being guests, because I feel like some of the subconscious says to me, overtaking is a little bit less frowned upon because that’s probably the biggest feedback I get on my own podcast.
I don’t let the guests talk enough or I interrupt too much, but oh well it’s challenging.
K.Lee Marks: [02:11:15] It’s, uh, it also, because we’re digital now, we’re not in person to do back and forth that way. But, um, it sounds like you have a really diverse topics, diverse guests. It’s going to be people who are into personal development of some kind of, of bettering themselves, of, of helping better society.
And also having a great frigging time while doing it, having comedians, having sports, uh, athletes on having just lots of different, uh, people and also exposing the human condition and different people and just human experiences and what they’re going through. And you’re, you’re a, you’re a super passionate guy.
You, you give your, all I can tell from our conversations that like. You just really love this art form. You love the art of conversation. You love getting to know people and, um, the episodes I’ve listened to of your show are fantastic. I’m happy that I have more to, to go into.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [02:12:03] Awesome. I appreciate it.
K.Lee Marks: [02:12:04] Yeah, no, it’s, it’s great.
I see really great things happen. And for Von dub cast and, you know, we’re working on, on putting out some more clips and stuff to help to help promote it. And I just, I think because it’s so dense and full of awesome conversation, it’s going to be awesome to kind of give these little nuggets and little gems of, of all these great conversations you’ve been having.
Cause I can, you know, I think if you just look at your, at your podcast art, you may not understand what would be beneath that. And that’s really exciting. So I definitely encourage everyone to go tune into to some episodes of The Von Dub Cast on all platforms. And it’s on YouTube too, which is great. You have the video up and, um, you’ve put out some awesome content.
And I think for so much for like illuminating these, these different sides of podcasting and kind of helping, uh, share your excitement around it. Because I think, you know, my goal with this show is to help new new, new podcasters and somewhat established shows continue to grow and giving this bigger perspective and giving these reasons why it’s so powerful and so fun and so exciting and inspiring is really good for people who are at the beginning of the journey looking forward.
So I just wanted to appreciate you there.
Nick Von Wackerbarth: [02:13:13] Awesome. I really, I really appreciate that. And thank you for having me on, I think that was one of my biggest goals of 2021 was to be a guest on more podcasts. And that’s something that, yeah. You know, I, I F I had a, I had a feeling I’d be really good at, I don’t know why.
I just kind of, it’s one of those things where I feel like so much of what holds me back on my own podcast is that a lot of the self-consciousness about being a host. Whereas I feel like the vulnerability part of it, I kind of have down already and I’m willing to go to these places. I’m willing to talk about anything.
There’s nothing that I’m going to be embarrassed about. I feel like I, I have that genuine love for myself now. So it makes, it takes away the sting of talking about all these things. But without that, so thank you so much for having me on thanks so much for all the ideas you’ve already, uh, upgraded the podcast in more ways than, you know, just by the little hints you dropped.
I think the idea of a, of a one pager for, uh, trying to get guests on was such a, I think I smacked myself in the head for about four days walking around after that, not thinking of that for myself. That was awesome. And I’m just putting it together now and I’m excited to see what kind of guests that I can bring on.
So thank you for. Bringing something forward like this that helps guys like me. I wish I would’ve found your podcast about seven months ago when I was starting it up to learn some of these lessons maybe a little bit earlier, but Hey, that’s the, uh, everything happens for you. You’re, you’re helping, you’re helping someone in that place right now.
I hope so. I hope so. And that’s the other part of this too, is reach out to me on the Von Dub Cast social medias. And I love to talk with this stuff and I love helping, and I want other people to start podcasts and I want to be, I, you know, I want to have you on my show and I want to be a guest on yours. I want to help people grow.
I just love the medium, so much, whatever I can do. I’m all for it. You’ll never catch me being too busy to talk podcasts with anybody. So please reach out. I’m more than willing to help you in any way that I can, or if I can help just do a, you know, maybe give you the motivation to keep going. Cause I think there’s some, uh, we’ve talked about a lot of the positives of this, but it is a lot of hard work and it’s a lot of grind and sometimes you need that support system to keep you propped up.
And even if it’s just that little, uh, that little, uh, lighter under your CA under your, uh, whatever those things, they let off the nice, uh, uh, Ah, this is going to kill me a rocket in it. They do it in Hawaii every year as a, uh, as a, as a death ritual, they, they, they put a little candle in them and it’s got a little thing, the heat and it like it rises and falls away in thing.
That’s like a balloon, but there’s a word for it. I know what you’re talking about. Those are really cool. The, the, the people that are listening to this right now are just screaming at the screaming at their phones right now. Let’s call this you dummies, but, Oh, well, anyways, where can they get in touch with you to tell you what it’s called?
Uh, @thevondubcast, uh, on Instagram, Twitter, I think it’s Dub_Von on Twitter. Actually. I don’t think I caught that quick enough. I thought I had the right name and then it changed it to that. Uh, Facebook, there’s a Facebook page for the Von dub cast on the YouTube comments I come through there I’d respond there, uh, anywhere.
Oh, also, uh, Vondubcast@gmail.com. Uh, is my email, if you want to reach out to me, if you want to be a guest on the show, if you want me to be a guest on your show, I love it. I could do podcasts all week long and that’s hopefully eventually what I can do and just have that be more of a full-time job where I do nothing but that.
So that’s the goal. If I can help you, uh, on your goals or you can help me. I love it. I just, uh, I can’t wait to see when this medium goes. I think we’re just seeing the, the very, very small ripples of what the change that’s going to come. Yeah, for sure. And I hope to have you back on the show soon, you have, you just have a lot to share, man, and I’m grateful for your time.
This was super fun. Thanks for helping, uh, with the first long form episode here on Be On Air. I’m honored. I’m honored. I love it. It’s awesome. All right. Well, I’ll be talking to you soon, Nick. It’s good to talk. Sounds good. Talk soon. Yeah.
